"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Homer: giving glory to the men?

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Zeus10
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Homer: giving glory to the men?

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:53 pm

In the Homeric poems, the author is naming many times several battles as 'κυδιάνειρα' which has been translated "giving glory to men" (kydos aner) because aidos=honor and aner=man.
In my opinion, this proposed translation is wrong. Its true that kydos has been widely accepted as 'honour', but this is just a definition to the word which in Albanian means: that gives(qe dhosh).
The second part again is been interepreted in a wrong way because νειρα(njeira) has not been used to define the man but the honour or ndera in Albanian. So the result is the same, but the way getting there is completely different.
The word νειρα is not a man, whose declension is like the following

Acient Greek-------------------------Albanian

νήρ(anjër)---------------------------njëri
νδρός
ἀνδρί
ἄνδρᾰ
ἄνερ

But the other Albanian word nder=honour after the vowel contraction.

Image

which in Geughes dialect is simply ner while in the standart language become a digramma nd.
This assimilation of stops phenomenon in Gheg dialect is very common. niq-ndiq, ner-nder etc.

Image

So κυδιάνειρα =qe dha ndera.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Homer: giving glory to the men?

#2

Post by rrëqebull » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:21 pm

Pajtonem plotësisht për sa i përket fjalës ner, si tek shprehja Tu rritt Nera!

Ndërsa për pjesën κυδιά- jam i prirur ta lexojte në kuptimin kudhja:
KUDH m.
1. Kudhër e madhe.
2. Enë balte me një dorëz, që shërben për të mbajtur bulmet poçe; qyp i vogël. Futi gjalpin në kudh.

Pra 'κυδιάνειρα' ndoshta domethënë: Kudhja e Nerës, qypi i Nderit, ena me të cilën robi merr apo i jepet Nera, natyrisht në një kuptim të fytyruar rapsodik.

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Re: Homer: giving glory to the men?

#3

Post by bardus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Se ckam parandjenjen se fjala njeri dhe ner "nder "eshte e njejta fjale.

Ner 'nder' ndoshta s`ka ardhur nga zbritja nd < n por ka ndodhur e kunderta ner > nder.

Neer ,naar ,mund te vijne nga *ar- 'i ndritur".

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Re: Homer: giving glory to the men?

#4

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:10 pm

bardus wrote:Se ckam parandjenjen se fjala njeri dhe ner "nder "eshte e njejta fjale.

Ner 'nder' ndoshta s`ka ardhur nga zbritja nd < n por ka ndodhur e kunderta ner > nder.

Neer ,naar ,mund te vijne nga *ar- 'i ndritur".
Pa dyshim qe n-era, eshte me e hershme se nd-era. Shqiptimi i rrokjes ne(apo ni), lehtesohet kur pas hundores n shtohet d-ja, duke e shnderruar ate ne nje digrafe, futet tingulli d. Pra ne rastin e n-se:

n--> nd(ose nt)
ne rasrin e m-se:
m---> mb, psh
myll---mbyll
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Homer: giving glory to the men?

#5

Post by bardus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:27 pm

Zeus10 wrote:
bardus wrote:Se ckam parandjenjen se fjala njeri dhe ner "nder "eshte e njejta fjale.

Ner 'nder' ndoshta s`ka ardhur nga zbritja nd < n por ka ndodhur e kunderta ner > nder.

Neer ,naar ,mund te vijne nga *ar- 'i ndritur".
Pa dyshim qe n-era, eshte me e hershme se nd-era. Shqiptimi i rrokjes ne(apo ni), lehtesohet kur pas hundores n duke e shnderruar ate ne nje digrafe, futet tingulli d. Pra ne rastin e n-se:

n--> nd(ose nt)
ne rasrin e m-se:
m---> mb, psh
myll---mbyll
Po ,jane te evidentuara qe kane ndodhur ne te dy krahet , n > nd dhe nd > n,po ashtu edhe m > mb dhe mb > m ;per ate njeri = ner,nder

s`kam si ta provoj vetem sa e hodha ketu,pergjithesisht e japin nga nje rrenje *h2ner- ,por une besoj se h2- eshte nje zhvillim i mevonshem.

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