"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

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ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#1

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:51 pm

This thread purports to detail as much as possible the relation of Albanian to Illyrian. In fact, most of current linguists are prone to believe that Albanian stem directly from an Illyrian dialect. In following I'll set up some of most tangible proofs which links modern Alb. to Illyrian.


The name of the Illyrian king Bardyllis (Βάρδυλλις/Βάρδυλις) has long perplexed the curiosity of certain linguists. While no definite etymology has been given, the link with Albanian has been considered. A number of linguists tended to believe that Βάρδυλλις is being composed of Βάρδ - bardhë (white) and υλλις - yll (star), thus giving the meaning of 'white star', probably an epithet given to his exceptional force. Accordingly, Paul Kretchmer neatly identified Bardyllis with alb. bardhë.

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Glotta :magazine for Greek and Latin language ... , Volume 32, Vandenhoeck and Ruprecht. , 1953, p. 61

Roseti opines that Bardyllis is related to Alb.

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Brève histoire de la langue roumaine: des origines à nos jours, Alexandru Rosetti, Mouton, 1973, p. 52

The Serbian academic, P.Ilic merely confirms the above etymology:

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Zbornik Šeste jugoslovenske onomastičke konferencije: Donji Milanovac, 9-12 oktobra 1985, Pavle Ivić, Srpska akademija nauka i umetnosti, 1987, p. 59

Even the Stuart Man who has comprehensively dealt with Albanian holds that ,,i bardhë'' is likely.

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An Albanian Historical Grammar, Suart E. Mann, Buske, 1977, p. 3

The list goes on...one of the most outstanding scholars on Illyrian studies maintain the traditional etymology:
Bardas, BäpSuMq sowie den apulischen Ortsnamen Barduli (heute Barletta.) — wo der Ort nach dem oder den Siedlern benannt wurde —— zusammen mit alb. barth, best. bardh-i ‚weiß' und den alb. Eigennamen Bardhi, Bardhok zur idg.

Die Sprache der alten Illyrier - Volume 1, Anton Mayer - 1957, p.19
...the Belgian academy takes for granted that etymology:

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Bulletin: Handelingen, Volumes 66-67, Belgium. Commission royale de toponymie & dialectologie, 1994, p. 50

Other sources:

http://books.google.com/books?id=xZftQt ... he&f=false

While analyzing that name, one should take into account the name of the Illyrian tribe Παρθῖνοι (Parthini) who presumably used to live in the same territories of Bardyllis kingdom. There is a hypothesis contending that the name of Albani tribe (who got mentioned by Claudi Ptolemy in 2 century AD) is a mere translation from the original Parthini. Its already known that *alb- root means 'white' which is well-attested in European toponymy. It does seem likely that Roman writers merely used ''Albani' instead of Parthini. This is further testified by the very fact that Parthini did not appear in later sources. The dental fricative θ might have given *dh in Albanian (Παρθ > Βάρδ > bardhë).
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#2

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:27 pm

Another phonetic feature consists of *k which yields in *q as it is evidenced by the following example:

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A History of Roman Religion, Franz Altheim, pp. 209-10
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:10 am

I am inclined to believe that exonym *Arbër reflects the endonym Ἀλβανοί which is attested into Greek provenience. If /-arbër/ really reflects the Greek form then we may surmise that it has undergone the phonetic changes in harmony with the laws of Albanian phonetic. In that term the intervocalic -n- is preserved in the same vain as Lat. inimicus > anëmik; Lat. galbinus > gjelbën, etc.

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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#4

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:32 am

Albanian has recognizably heaps of commonalities with Baltic, which is averred by numerous linguists. Most of them consider that these relations stretch back to the ancient times. It has been taken into consideration that Illyrian has exerted some influence into Baltic region since the outset when Illyrian was in the nearby of Baltic, suggesting a common place of formation. But this is overly conjectural. It is not unreasonable to assume that Illyrian might influence Baltic into a later period. The case of *balta (,,mud'') deserve to be taken into account.

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Foreword to the Past: A Cultural History of the Baltic People, Endre Bojtár, 1999
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#5

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:35 am

It has been definitely settled down that PIE */o/ becomes as /a/ in Albanian. Those linguists who have minutely studied Albanian have mustered a lot of evidence.

Image

On what is loosely called as Venetian, Atkinson observed another common feature with Albanian. This consist of IE *kt > t (as it is exemplified in Alb. nat, night from older *nokt) which is exemplified in a semi-developed condition in the name of the goddess Rehtia for older *Rectia. Atkinson goes on to say that "The accusative singular termination also, in -n for older "-m, connects the Venetic dialect with Albanian, though this phenomenon is not of course confined to these two languages. The Venetic treatment of the labio-velar agrees also with that...

*For a similar elaboration see Proceedings of the Cambridge Philological Society - Issues 97-180 - Page 38
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#6

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:53 am

Heinrich Tischner has coupled several Albanian words which have their cognates in Illyrian and other I.E languages as well. Some observations of him I find very interesting which shred further light on the relation between Alb. and Illyrian.

idg. *cërs- 'rennen'
lat. currere 'rennen', mhd. hurren 'sich schnell bewegen'
griech. ἐπί-κουρος epíkouros 'zu Hilfe eilend'
*cr̥sos 'Renner, Pferd, Wagen'
ahd. hros 'Pferd'
lat. currus 'Wagen'
gall. > lat. carrus 'Packwagen'
lat. carrūca 'Reisewagen'
frz. carrue 'Pflug'
>> nhd. Karch 'zweirädriger Wagen'

alban. qerre 'Wagen, Karren'

illyr. sarrācum (Sg), σάρσαι sársai 'Wagen' (Pl.)
dazu aind. काष्ठा kâṣṭha 'Rennbahn'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... /wagen.htm
alb. vjéshtë 'Herbst', vjétër 'alt', vit 'Jahr'
messap. ata-vetes 'vom gleichen Jahr'


http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... /vacca.htm
alb. ujk 'Wolf'
illyr. BN Ulcirus Mons, PN Ulcudius, OB Οὐλκίνιον Ulkinón

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... w/wolf.htm
Etymologie
zu vor-idg. *pir- 'Berg, Abhang, Stein, Felsen' = japhet. *bʰer- 'hoch sein' < japhet. *bʰer- 'tragen, bringen, erheben, gebären, Frucht bringen, Kind' < noach. *ʙer- 'tragen, hervorbringen, erheben'
/bʰ > p/ in derselben (vor-idg.) Sprachschicht, in der *albʰos > Alpes 'Alpen' geworden ist.
hatt. pi(r) 'Stein', heth. peruna- 'Fels'; alb. piret, pjerr 'sich neigen'; pjerësí 'Neigung, Abhang'; pjérrët 'geneigt, abschüssig, steil'; BN Mons Pirus 'Heiligenberg bei Heidelberg
ablautende BN
antik: BN Πýρων Pýrōn (Lokris),
modern: Monte Puro (Apenninen), Mont Pourri (Westalpen)
anders gebildet: vorgriech. Παρνασσός Parnassós
Heth. peruna 'Fels' und mitteleurop. *perkunıa 'Gebirge' entsprechen sich wie
russ. перун perún 'Blitz' und lit. perkūnas 'Donner'
< japhet. *bʰer(-ƺ)- 'glänzen', also mit und ohne κ-Anfügung

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/8 ... rcun-d.htm
alban. mënd 'säugen, saugen', mëzón 'säugen'
mëz 'Folen', mëzát 'Jungbulle', mëshqérre, mëzóre 'junge Kuh', mëzatóre 'Milchkuh', më́ze 'junge Stute'
illyr. mandos 'Pferd', menda 'Stute', messap. Menzana 'ein Gott, dem man Pferde opferte'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... mandos.htm
'binden, befestigen'
thrak. μανδάκης mandákēs 'Garbenband'
illyr. *mandális 'Riegel'
griech. μάνδαλος mándalos 'Riegel'
alban. mandáll 'Türriegel'
'Flechtwerk'
illyr. *mándura 'Pferch, Stall'
illyr. ON Mandurium / Manduria
griech. μάνδρα mándra 'Pferch, Stall, Hürde'
alban. mandër 'Almhütte, Pferch, Herde'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... /mande.htm
ill. ON Malontum
albanisch Pokorny 721

*malos > mal 'Berg',
*molıa > maje 'Spitze, Höhe, Gipfel'
*mēlıa > moje 'hochgelegener Ort'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... m/mel8.htm
illyr. μαντία mantía Brombeerstrauch'
a-alb. mand, mandë, alb. man 'Maulbeerbaum'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... ulbeer.htm
alb. madh (f. mëhá) 'groß', madhësía 'Größe'
ill. PN Mag-aplinos

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... magnus.htm
illyr. ON Ludrum

alban. lym
'Flussschlamm'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... l/leu2.htm
illyr. ON Λαδεστα, Λαδεστον
alban. ledh
'Erdhügel, Damm, Einfriedigung, Mauer; Schlamm'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... letten.htm
mak. ἀγέρδα agérda 'wilder Birnbaum'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... herzdh.htm
griech. θηλή tʰēlḗ 'Mutterbrust', θῆλυς tʰḗlys 'weiblich'
alban. dele 'Schaf'
illyr. dalm- 'Schaf'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... d/dhei.htm
griech. βρύτια brýtia 'Kelterrückstände'
> illyr. brīsa 'Rückstände vom Weinkeltern'
> lat. brīsa 'Rückstände vom Weinkeltern'
alb. bërsí 'Kelterrückstände'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2 ... /bher3.htm
*bun(n)os 'Wohnsitz, Volksstamm' P147
ill. VN Buni, ON Βοῦννος Boûnnos
alb. bun 'Sennhütte'
< idg. *bʰëuno- 'Wohsitz, Volksstamm' < japhet. *bʰeu- 'wachsen, gedeihen, entstehen, werden sein, wohnen' < *ʙu- "buh, puh" machen, mit dem Mund blasen, aufblasen, dick werden' < noach., adam. *ʙ- 'Mund'

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/1 ... a.htm#meta mitten in
dam-, dō- 'Erde' P414
ill. Δαμ- Dam-, Δω- Dō-, vgl. alb. dhe 'Erde'
< idg. *ƺʰdʰëm- 'Erde' < noach. *ƺeďom < *ƺom- 'Erde'
meta 'mitten in'
ill. ON. Metubarbis 'zwischen den Sümpfen', mess.. VN Μετάπιοι Met-ápioi, hellenisiert Μεσσάπιοι Messápioi 'zwischen den Flüssen' P702
= alban. mjet
'Mittel zum Zweck' < idg. Präposition metá 'mitten' in'
*mandális 'Riegel', *mándura 'Pferch, Stall'
ON Manduria / Mandurium P699
vgl. alban. mandáll 'Türriegel', mandër 'Almhütte, Pferch, Herde'
< japhet. *menζ- 'drehen, binden, flechten' < *φenζ- 'drehen'
to 'zu bei'
ill. to 'zu bei' P71
vgl. alb. to 'zu bei'
< idg. *ătó 'zu, bei' < japhet. *hëζë Präposition
*ulkos 'Wolf'
ill. BN Ulcirus Mons, PN Ulcudius, OB Οὐλκίνιον Ulkinón P1178
vgl. alb. ujk < idg. *ʊḷkos 'Wolf' < japhet. *ʊḷ- 'Reißer' < *ʊẽl- 'reißen'
ill. ON. (Lokativ) Metubarbis P702
'zwischen den Sümpfen'
vgl. griech., maked. βόρβορος bórboros 'Schlamm, Schmutz, Mist'
maked. *βασκευτά baskeutá, *βάσκιος báskios 'Reisigbündel'
alban. bashkón
'vereinigen', báshku 'zusammen, gemeinsam'
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#7

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:43 pm

Although the following excerpt has little bearing on the disccusion, however, I definitely managed to post it because it contains the seemingly correct premise that Albanian hark its origin back to many dialects which were presumably spoken on Illyria. It's widely held that Illyrian consisted of several dialects who might well have significant differences.

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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#8

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:52 am

Another Illyrian lexeme which is preserved in Albanian is the Epirotic gloss for sea ,,dubris'', to whom Hesychius describes as ''thalassa'':
  Hence it follows that IE *dhubris is, in spite of the alluring morphological identity, an entirely different word, confined to Western Indo-European, namely Celtic-Italic-Illyrian. It also becomes plausible that Alb. dejet, even if it is to be traced to *dheubeta, is cognate with Illyr. dubris and not with Gmc. *deupa- ''deep''; the semantic change ''deep-sea'' has, owing to our Classical studies (cf. lat. altum) grown so familar with us that it seems to have become an axiom but it seems rather difficult to quote another...

p. 8

Bauer, Laurie, 1978 'On lexicalization neither a lexicalist nor a transformationalist be', Archivum Linguisticum 9 (News Series): 3-14.  
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#9

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue May 27, 2014 10:03 pm

The noted linguist, Abdullah Konushevci remarked another pertinent phonological similarity which feature both in Albanian and its precursor i.e Illyrian. He drew attention to an array of examples which put beyond any doubt that the prefix -d have had the same function in both languages:
  Writing about Albanian place-name Shkalla e Dunjas (Watery Stair) I have noticed that we have to deal with prefixed form d-unj-as (for suffix –as cf. Mamuras, Përrenjas, Bishkas), where –unj- is oldest form of Alb ujë `water'. Same prefix I have noticed also in Alb place-name Vau i Dejës `Deja's Ford', attested form dain-ja, lat. Daigna, where d- is also prefix, as we could see from Ain-ona/Aen-ona. Same root we notice in Alb place-name Bar-aina etc.
Having in mind that we have for nasalized zero-grade form of *reiH- `to flow, run' the form *rin- and suffixed forms *ril- and *rei-wo- I came to conclusion that Illyrian/Alb river names Drinus, Drilon are indeed prefixed form d- + ril- and d- + rin- as well as Drivastum (mod. Drisht) from d- + riv-astum. For the form Drilon and Drivastum exists also other prefixed forms K-ril-evë and K-riv-açë. Same phenomenon I have noticed in Illyrian fortess name Dabanos (Proc. De aed. IV, 4), that seems by all chances to be a prefixed form d- ab 'water'-anos, attested also in Dardanian place-names Dabesh-ec, Dab-in-oc, Dab-koc and brook-name Dab-oc. Prefix d- in Albanian has intensifying function: rojë `guard', d-rojë
`dismay, shyness', dboj `expel, banish' (cf. zboj `id.'), dborë
`snow', besides borë `id.', zborës, dlir `to purify' from adj. i lirë
`free', dvarr `to hurt, wound' (cf. Alb. varrë `wound') etc.

So, to conclude: d- + root

*rin- > Illyrian/Albanian river name Drinum
*ril- > Illyrian/Albanian revers name Drilon, Drilo (cf. also above
K-ril-evë)
*rei-wo- > Illyrian/Albanian river name Drivastum (cf. also above
K-riv-açë)
*ab- > Illyrian/Albanian Dabanos (cf. also above Dab-anos, Dab-oc,
Dab-inoc, Dab-koc)
*roi-na: > Illyrian/Albanian river names Dren-ica, Dren-oc etc.  
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Re: ILLYRIAN - ALBANIAN COMMONALITIES

#10

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:07 pm

Linguists upheld that Venetic constituted a northern Illyrian dialect featuring Centum characteristics although its material is nearly wanting. Whereas modern research is inclined to see Venetic as detached from Illyrian (yet closely related to it) given that the data at our disposal warrants certain local peculiarities. One should not fail to remark that Venetic retain IE *o as <o, while in Illyrian and Albanian *o shifted in a. Having said that, I would like to notice some commonalities between Venetic and Albanian. It was the merit of Pauli and Kretchmer who sniffed that Venetic "zonasto" (mexo zonasto 'has given me') "zoto" (mexo zoto 'has given this') might be compared with alb. ''dhashë'' in aorist (I gave), which in turn stem from *dǝ-sm̥. Does this constitute a solid evidence in unraveling common Illyr-Alb. phonetic characteristics?
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