"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Molossia or Myzeqe?

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Molossia or Myzeqe?

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:13 am

John Musachi the despot of Epirus 1515 leaves to us a very interesting testimony, that Molosia is the actual Myzeqe, which means 150-200 km up north than what had been told to us.

Molosia(according to the modern historiography):

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Myzeqeja

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1515
John Musachi
Brief Chronicle on the Descendants of our Musachi Dynasty


The chronicle or memoir of John Musachi (Ital. Giovanni Musachi) constitutes the oldest substantial text written by an Albanian. Musachi, despot of Epirus, was of a noble, ruling family from the Myzeqe region of central Albania. He was forced to abandon his land and take flight to Italy when Albanian resistance to the Ottoman conquest collapsed and the country was occupied by the Turks.

I am leaving you with this brief chronicle, so that when God in his mercy should deign to return you to your homeland, you will at least know some details of your country and of your forefathers. From the little information I have, I would like to inform you of the names of your forefathers, who held sway and who were expelled from your land and country by the sultan. Alas, I cannot tell you anything of the first ruler in ancient times because the chronicles of this country have been lost, but I do wish to bring to light the little I know and what people have told me.
They say in fact that our dynasty stems from the city of Constantinople and came to rule over Epirus in Albania.
From the start, it is important that you learn our family name, and what the reason was that we are called Molosachi. You should know that our family name comes from the land of the Molossi, known as such since ancient times. We were rulers of that land and thus they called us. The word Molosachi was then corrupted into Musachi.
You should also know that the emblem of our dynasty since ancient times has been a flowing fountain which flows in two streams, one on each side.

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This is the fountain of Epirus about which many authors have written that it extinguishes a lit torch and lights an extinguished torch. Later, we also had a two headed eagle crowned with a star in the middle, and as you know, we have cherished this fountain ever since that time for undertakings and ceremonies.
These arms of ours are ancient, and both the arms and the family name come from that country.
The emblem of your mother's dynasty is a white eagle. She comes from the Dukagjini family, a noble dynasty, so do not forget where you come from.
I can confirm to you that Andrew Molosachi or Musachi was the sebaston cratos and ruler of Epirus, which in Albanian is called pylloria. He ruled all of Myzeqe and other districts.
This Myzeqe is the country of the Molossi and was thus named after them. We have been the rulers of that country from ancient times to the present day and took on the family name Molosachi, but the word Molossia was corrupted and is pronounced Mosachia and in Albanian it is called Myzeqe. This Molossia is in actual fact Epirus, as was mentioned above. It is a part of the whole land to be described below, which today is part of Epirus as far as I remember. I am telling you what I know and what I have heard.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#2

Post by jay_albania_fan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:34 am

Great find there! I found an English translation and more details of it here:

http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1515.html

After reading it, one really gets a feel for the history and proud tradition of the Albanians here.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#3

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:54 pm

I have prepared a short study about the etymology of our name, using several references from ancient, medieval and modern sources. I have written it ine English, and even though is short is syntetic and meaningful.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#4

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:12 pm

Emblem of Epirotes_Albanian of John Musachi

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#5

Post by jay_albania_fan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:13 pm

Albanian “Pylloria” coming from Albanian “pyll” makes good sense. So now if we consider Greek, “Epeirus” coming from Albanian “Pylloria” perhaps an older form of Albanian “Pylloria” would be “*Ëpuloria”. Older unattested Albanian had more ë-vowels initially which were often deleted.

If Greek “hulē” and Albanian “pyll” were related in any way, it would have to be a loan from some Illyrian dialect from which Greek borrowed it. This unknown Illyrian dialect would have to have *φule (φ being a voiceless bilabial fricative, this φ from an earlier p) as why it would be written with an h- in Greek. If the world “hulē” is a native Greek word the original Proto-Greek form would be “sulē” which would thus make it unrelated to Albanian “pyll”.

So far it looks promising. The word “arbor” attested in Latin is of unknown etymology. I had not considered an “Arbër” connection until now. I wonder if perhaps an old form for Arbëria” may be “*Arboria”. An “o” to “ë” would not be unusual at all.

Albanian “dru” is from a well attested root in all Indo-European branches and languages.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#6

Post by notorius » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:45 pm

Zeus10 wrote:I have prepared a short study about the etymology of our name, using several references from ancient, medieval and modern sources. I have written it in English, and even though is short is syntetic and meaningful.
Shkrimi ishte magjik. Do mundesh me ndihmu per ato shkronja te grekut me i spjegu.

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#7

Post by qiellikaltër » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:04 am

Zeus10 wrote:I have prepared a short study about the etymology of our name, using several references from ancient, medieval and modern sources. I have written it in English and even though is short is syntetic and meaningful.
Excellent!
"Du t'jem zot, n'timen tok,
dje dhe sot, sot e neser."

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#8

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:40 pm

jay_albania_fan wrote: If the world “hulē” is a native Greek word the original Proto-Greek form would be “sulē” which would thus make it unrelated to Albanian “pyll”.
I have to say that the word ύλη

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must not be pronounced as hulē.
Yes, it's been suggested from the modern lingustics that the diacritic marks above initial vowel, means the presence of an aspirative in front, but in Ancient Greek the initial ύ had been pronounced as the Albanian Y.
So if ύλλος is pronounced HYLL-OS, there is no reason for the word
ύλη to be pronounced hulē. The right prononciation must be hylē very similar to Albanian pyll-ë. I have to mention that the Albanian initial p is not originally part of the morphology of the word, also the switch from L --> LL, is an Albanian selfcorrection language ability to avoid homonims, otherwise it will sound pylë~pulë(chicken)
ύλη in modern Greek means material, is writen as Ύλη at the beggining of the sentence but since Modern Greek is missing the sound Y otherwise of the Ancient they cant pronounce this way:

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This is an original tekst where you could notice the original letter Y:

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original Proto-Greek form would be “sulē”
Doesn't really matter, in Albanian we have a said:

'Kur ke ujkun nuk te duhen gjurmet'

which means

You don't have to follow the tracks of a wolf if you see the wolf standing right in front of you

So if the Ancient Greek Yli sound almost identical to Albanian pylli why we need to track down the so called "orginal IE root"?
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#9

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:06 pm

jay_albania_fan wrote:
I wonder if perhaps an old form for Arbëria” may be “*Arboria”. An “o” to “ë” would not be unusual at all.
Yes, all the ""greek" sources mentioning the name of places in Albania use o instead of ë.

Polybius's History of the World

τῶν δὲ πολιορκούντων τὴν Ἴσσαν οἱ μὲν ἐν τῇ Φάρῳ διὰ τὸν Δημήτριον ἀβλαβεῖς ἔμειναν, οἱ δ' ἄλλοι πάντες ἔφυγον εἰς τὸν Ἄρβωνα σκεδασθέντες. ἡ δὲ Τεύτα πάνυ μετ' ὀλίγων εἰς τὸν Ῥίζονα διεσώθη, πολισμάτιον εὖ πρὸς ὀχυρότητα κατεσκευασμένον, ἀνακεχωρηκὸς μὲν ἀπὸ τῆς θαλάττης, ἐπ' αὐτῷ δὲ κείμενον τῷ Ῥίζονι ποταμῷ. ταῦτα δὲ πράξαντες καὶ τῷ Δημητρίῳ τοὺς πλείστους ὑποτάξαντες τῶν Ἰλλυριῶν καὶ .......

Of the Illyrian troops engaged in blockading Issa, those that belonged to Pharos were left unharmed, as a favour to Demetrius; while all the rest scattered and fled to Arbon. Teuta herself, with a very few attendants, escaped to Rhizon, a small town very strongly fortified, and situated on the river of the same name. Having accomplished all this, and having placed the greater part of Illyria under Demetrius, and invested him with a wide dominion, the Consuls retired to Epidamnus with their fleet and army.


Also ë belongs only to the tosk dialekt, which was not a major dialect in the time of Arboria:

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#10

Post by jay_albania_fan » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:41 pm

Zeus10 wrote:
jay_albania_fan wrote: If the world “hulē” is a native Greek word the original Proto-Greek form would be “sulē” which would thus make it unrelated to Albanian “pyll”.
I have to say that the word ύλη

Image

must not be pronounced as hulē.
Yes, it's been suggested from the modern lingustics that the diacritic marks above initial vowel, means the presence of an aspirative in front, but in Ancient Greek the initial ύ had been pronounced as the Albanian Y.
So if ύλλος is pronounced HYLL-OS, there is no reason for the word
ύλη to be pronounced hulē. The right prononciation must be hylē very similar to Albanian pyll-ë. I have to mention that the Albanian initial p is not originally part of the morphology of the word, also the switch from L --> LL, is an Albanian selfcorrection language ability to avoid homonims, otherwise it will sound pylë~pulë(chicken)
ύλη in modern Greek means material, is writen as Ύλη at the beggining of the sentence but since Modern Greek is missing the sound Y otherwise of the Ancient they cant pronounce this way:
This is true Ancient Greek "υ" was pronounced as the Albanian "y". The earlier sound for "y" would have been "u" for both languages. Aspiration sometimes is irregular where sometimes it is added and dropped without any regularity. So perhaps the Greek word was either "hulē" or "ulē". In any event, maybe I missed something but how is the Albanian "p-" not a part of the original word? Did "Pylloria" consist of two words originally ***p + Ylloria?
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#11

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:07 pm

Did "Pylloria" consist of two words originally ***p + Ylloria?
No, I meant that the sound p has been added in a later time, from the Albanian antihomonym mechanism of the language, to avoid the collision betwen :
pyll(forest) and yll(star) which I think are words created from the same primitive reasoning.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#12

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:31 pm

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#13

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:50 pm

Elena Kocaqi me shume eshte e prire qe Myzeqene ta lidhe me fisin iliro-thrakas Myzet ose Myzine.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#14

Post by Hymniarber » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:06 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:
Mund te them thjeshte, e shkelqyer. Videoja me e mire qe kemi relizuar, falemnderit Mallakastrioti.
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Re: Molossia or Myzeqe?

#15

Post by Zeus10 » Mon May 03, 2010 3:13 pm

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