"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Troy Connected to Illyrians

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Troy Connected to Illyrians

#1

Post by Arta » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:49 am

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi [the forerunners of the Phrygians]. (Strabo).

IDEA: Strabo points there that the forerunners of the Phrygians spoke originally Illyrian.

Strabo: Some say that the Paeonians [Pannonians, Illyrian tribe] are colonizers that came from Phrygia [in this case a geographic term, not ethnic, for the Troad], where others say that these [the Paeonians] gave rise to the Phrygians.

IDEA: In fact Phrygians and Paeonians have in common that they dwelt before in the Strymon country, and moreover, the Troad was known as Phrygia, so pointing out that it was also occupied by them (before or after the Thracian Mysians).
Scymnus Chius and Strabo locate the Brygi far to the west on the borders of Epirus and Illyria (in actual Albania).

IDEA: So that such Brygians could have spoken an Illyrian language... PAEONIANS = PANNONIANS [Illyrian tribe]

IDEA: In case that the Phrygians would have been of Illyrian origin, after blended with Thracian and Greek elements, that would confirm that they wouild have been an Urnfield's spear point to the Balkans; also that would confirm the ethnic identification with the Illyrians with the Urnfield peoples. The Phrygian kingdom was overthrown by the Cimmerians in -676. Proto-Armenians did not enter Urartian areas until the Urartian state was collapsing after -635; and Phrygians in their side were beaten by Cimmerian and Scythian plunderings...

TROJANS: ILLYRIAN PAEONES ?

“But who,” he [Darius] answered, “are the Paeonians, and where do they dwell, and with what intent have you come to Sardis? [in Lydia]” They told him, that they had come to be his men, that the towns of Paeonia lay on the Strymon, a river not far from the Hellespont, and that they were colonists from the Teucrians of Troy. (Herodotus)

Herodotus: on the Thracians: "These when they had crossed over into Asia came to be called Bithynians, but formerly they were called, as they themselves report, Strymonians, since they dwelt upon the river Strymon; and they say that they [the Bythinians] were driven out of their abode by the [Paeonian] Teucrians and [Thracian] Mysians." The inhabitants of Troas, called by prose-writers Trojani or Teucri. The Tjeker Sea People refered in Egyptian stele was linked with the Teucrians ?

IDEA: I Strymon river dwelt previously the Briges, after came invading Thracian Moesians/Mysians, and the last to arrive the Paeonians, also expelled by common Thracians...

PAEONIANS = TEUCRI in Troy


IDEA: Would have the Pelasgians (as theoric forerunners of Epirots, Macedonians, Dorians and Achaians) an origin in the Paeonians /Pannonians (Banat region) ? The Scamander had as son Teucer, his daughter, Batia married Dardanus [the Dardanians were an Illyrian tribe], which came from Samothrace and founded Troy. The grandson of Dardanus was Tros, which had as son Ilus II (which re-founded Troy and gave his own name to the city). Ilus' son was Laomedon, and Laomedon's son was Priam. The father and the son of this king, Paris, will be defeated by the Greeks after raping Hellen (action that humiliated the Greeks and menaced since he would have inherited Hellen's kingdom).

IDEA: That gives seven generations between Teucer and Priam, some 175 years. Allied with Troy: Thracians, Dardanians of Troy, Carians, Maeonians, Phrygians, Mysians, Lycians and Pelasgians. Appian, The Foreign Wars: "These peoples [Illyrian tribes], and also the Pannonians [related to Teucrians], the Rhaetians, the Noricans, the Mysians of Europe, and the other neighboring tribes who inhabited the right bank of the Danube, the Romans distinguished from one another just as the various Greek peoples are distinguished from each other, and they call each by its own name, but they consider the whole of Illyria as embraced under a common designation."

IDEA: it is attested that the Rhaetians crossed the Alps in classical sources, also we know that the Norics were Celtics that sprang with the Hallstadt culture, and the Mysians could have suffered a process of Thracization. Mysia was considered in Roman times as part of Illyria; the Pannonians/Paeones were considered as Illyrians and they dwelt in Illyria; Mysians also present in the Troad; Teucrians from Pannonia there... = Illyrian spearhead .

IDEA: If it is recognized that the Teucrians were Paeones/Pannonians, that would allowto understand better the ancient traditions that speak about a migration of Trojans towards north Italy; and since the Veneti were a branch of the Illyrians , everything would become more clear: Veneti and Trojans departed from Illyria, or the Illyrians and Veneti departed from NW Turkey after so much plunderings.
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: Troy Connected to Illyrians

#2

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:00 pm

Paeonians and Pannonians are two different tribes.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Troy Connected to Illyrians

#3

Post by Arta » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:30 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Paeonians and Pannonians are two different tribes.
I was reading that too, and that is why I put it on a thread of it's own, instead of the Illyrian thread.
Maybe on the information presented, we can add and develop what is not there. It seemed very interesting!
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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