"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

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The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#1

Post by Arta » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:01 pm

Australian Macedonian Advisory Council
October 05, 2009
With a great surprise we read some amazing historical quotes that concern various periods from European history that derives from Prof. William Maxwell and can be found in the article "Journey to Albania" (http://gaiaschool.info/Journey_to_Albania.html).

These quotes read:

"The Albanians are universally acknowledged as the descendants of the Illyrians who gave the world Alexander the Great, Emperor Constantine, several other Roman and Byzantine Emperors, one of the popes of the Roman Catholic Church, several Grand Vizirs of the Ottoman Empire, Muhammad Ali Pasha, father of modern Egypt, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, founder of modern Turkey, as well as Mother Teresa destined for sainthood because of her services to the poor of India. Albania was also the only country in Europe that protected all the Jews, i.e. the only European country where the Jewish population was increased during WWII."

I will try to analyze step by step the accuracies of the above quote. Not all of them because I am not expert of all these that William Maxwell wrote such as the Ottoman history.

"Albanians are universally acknowledged as the descendants of the Illyrians….."

This myth systemically cultivated from known Albanian centres that promote the historical revisionism and extreme nationalism in the Balkans. Albanians are not universally acknowledged as the descendants of the Illyrians. This confirms from several studies and works such as ´Illyrians´ by John Wilkes, several works from the expert of the Albanian history Mrs Miranda Vickers, Albanian identities: myth and history by Stephanie Schwandner-Sievers and Bernd Jürgen Fischer, global wide collectively works such as the ancient, modern and medieval history of the Cambridge and Oxford Universities e.t.c.

And finally: "…Albanians are universally acknowledged…who gave the world Alexander the Great…"

This is one from the most historically inaccurate arguments; similar with the FYROM argument that Alexander The Great was of Slavonic origin. Thousands of historical works and many writers (Hammond, Worthington, Borza, Stoneman, Ulrich Wilcken e.t.c.) have agreed that Alexander The Great was born in July 356 (Arr. 7.28.1, Plut. Alex. 3.5), was the son of Macedonian Philip´s fourth wife Olympias, a princess from Epirus, situated to Macedon´s west. None of them mention that Alexander was Illyrian, and the most inaccurate – Albanian (http://www.macedonia-evidence.org) as William Maxwell quoted. Macedonians according the same sources were a mix of Greek and older ancient tribes or were just Greek or of unknown origin (Borza). Epirotans according the same sources were Greeks and the most known tribe was the Mollosian. None of them mention Illyrian or Albanian.

"Albanians are universally acknowledged…who gave…Emperor Constantine, several other Roman and Byzantine Emperors (were Albanians)".

Emperor Constantine and several other Roman and Byzantine Emperors were not Albanians, as William Maxwell claims. Byzantine Dynasties were Greek, Armenian, Roman, Anatolian origin. This is also confirmed from many writers and experts of the Byzantine history like George Ostrogorski, Paul Stephenson, Cyril Mango, Joan Hussey, John Norwich as also from global wide collectively works like European medieval history of the Cambridge, Oxford and Michigan Universities e.t.c..

"Albanians are universally acknowledged…who gave…pope in the Roman Catholic Church…"

Catholic Encyclopaedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/), the same source used by William Maxwell doesn´t even mention that any one of the Popes was Albanian!

" Albania was also the only country in Europe that protected all the Jews, i.e. the only European country where the Jewish population was increased during WWII…"


At the 30s and 40s and according the Albanian sources only 200 Jews lived! Jewish population actually grew during the Axis occupation; it is estimated that there were 1800 Jews in Albania at the end of war but the small Jewish community (200 souls) of Vlore was expelled from the country at the Nazis concentration´s camp.

Albania at the WWII also as is known was allied of the fascist Italy and thousands Albanians were enlisted in the known SS regiments (SS Division Skanderbeg and Handschar Division.

CONCLUSION

There is an Illyrian myth, with which Albanian culture has been flirting for at least 150 years, and as a myth it can't be questioned for it has all the answers. There is also a very tentative Illyrian science, based mainly on archaeology, and on some data transmitted by Ancient Greek and Roman Historians. Those who are ready to accept that Illyrians and Albanians were one people should have a look at the Messapic inscriptions, in Puglia. These inscriptions show that the Illyrian question is extremely complicated, and that it isn't likely to be resolved, unless fundamental epigraphic discoveries are made.

In the real world there are no examples of ancient Illyrian literature surviving (aside from the Messapian writings if they can be considered Illyrian), it is difficult to clarify its place within the Indo-European language family. Albanians first appear in the historical record in Byzantine sources of the late 11th century. At this point, they are already fully Christianized. Very little evidence of pre-Christian Albanian culture survives, and Albanian mythology and folklore as it presents itself is notoriously amalgamated from various sources; showing in particular Greek influence. Albanians are and have been referred to by other terms as well. Some of them are:

Arbër, Arbën, Arbëreshë; the old native term denoting ancient and medieval Albanians and sharing the same root with the latter. At the time the country was called Arbër (Gheg: Arbën) and Arbëria (Gheg: Arbënia). This term is still used for the Albanians that migrated to Italy during the Middle Ages.

Arnauts; old term used mainly from Turks and by extension by European authors during the Ottoman Empire. A derivate of Arbër, Albanian.

Skipetars; the historical rendering of the ethnonym Shqiptar (or Shqyptar by French, Austrian and German authors) in use from the 18th century (but probably earlier) to the present, the literal translation of which is subject of the eagle. The term Šiptari is a derivation used by Yugoslavs which the Albanians consider derogatory.

There is not any historical record as regards the connection of the Illyrians (that were last mentioned in 7th century AD, during the Slavic migration to the Balkans) and Albanians. Also, there is no linguistic connection of the unknown Illyrian language with the Albanian language.

Prof. William Maxwell must be more cautious when writing articles regarding history, as he is not a historical expert. There isn´t much difference between historical revisionism and historical ignorance; and this concludes to the legitimate scholastic correction of existing knowledge about an historical event, or to the illegitimate distortion of historical records.
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#2

Post by Arta » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:01 pm

I want you guys to read this and what you think of it!
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#3

Post by jay_albania_fan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:41 am

This "group" has no idea what they are talking about.

There is plenty of linguistic evidence connecting Albanian and Illyrian. Many Illyrian words have obvious Albanian descendants. Albanian's Urheimat is securely located in Illyria. Also to claim the Illyrians spoke one dialect (or even language) is silly as well. Illyria was a huge territory and to fathom they all spoke the same exact linguistic form would be naive.

Albanians don't claim that Alexander the Great was Albanian, just that he had some Illyrian ancestors.

One pope was Albanian, all of the best soldiers of the Ottoman Empire were Albanian, Muhammad Ali was Albanian, Mother Theresa was Albanian, and Ataturk had very little Turkish ancestry.
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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#4

Post by Socio » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:52 am

jay_albania_fan wrote:This "professor" has no idea what he is talking about".
It's not the professor Jay !!!!!

It's the so-called "Australian Macedonian Council" that wrote the poor article !









Arta, the title of the subject you put up is misleading !
One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#5

Post by Arta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:53 am

Socio wrote:
jay_albania_fan wrote:This "professor" has no idea what he is talking about".
It's not the professor Jay !!!!!

It's the so-called "Australian Macedonian Council" that wrote the poor article !





Arta, the title of the subject you put up is misleading !
Socio I posted the article as I took it from the site.
That is why I said for everyone to read it, and give opinions!
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#6

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm

This article is part of Greek propaganda and is an revisionistic effort to change the fondamental theses for the old history of Albanians, or at least to mislead the arguments in the wrong direction. 'Australian Macedonian Advisory Council' is the center which is the leader and sponsored to create enormous Greek propaganda, distorting the truth, and interpreting the history in a very 'Greeko-Latin' prospective. Nevertheless they never dare to show the links betwen Ancient Greeks and Modern ones, but they "innocently" just take for granted that when you mention Hellenes they are the same in Antiquity and now.

PS. Arta, kujdes kur sjell artikuj te tille, ato na kushtojne energji dhe e drejtojne lexuesin ne vendin e gabuar.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

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Post by Arta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:16 pm

Zeus10 wrote:This article is part of Greek propaganda and is an revisionistic effort to change the fondamental theses for the old history of Albanians, or at least to mislead the arguments in the wrong direction. 'Australian Macedonian Advisory Council' is the center which is the leader and sponsored to create enormous Greek propaganda, distorting the truth, and interpreting the history in a very 'Greeko-Latin' prospective. Nevertheless they never dare to show the links betwen Ancient Greeks and Modern ones, but they "innocently" just take for granted that when you mention Hellenes they are the same in Antiquity and now.

PS. Arta, kujdes kur sjell artikuj te tille, ato na kushtojne energji dhe e drejtojne lexuesin ne vendin e gabuar.
Zeus pikerisht per kete arsye e solla ketu, qe te lexonit c'fare shkruajne, direkt mbas terheqjes se Enciklopedise. Per mua, ne nuk duhet te lexojme vetem ato qe na bejne qejfin, por biles keto qe flasin ne kete menyre dhe te jemi te gatshem tu kunderpergjigjemi, duke edhe e diskutuar ketu midis njeri-tjetrit keto qe ata po mundohen ti trillojne.
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#8

Post by jay_albania_fan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:07 pm

Socio wrote:
jay_albania_fan wrote:This "professor" has no idea what he is talking about".
It's not the professor Jay !!!!!

It's the so-called "Australian Macedonian Council" that wrote the poor article !


Arta, the title of the subject you put up is misleading !
Ah cool I fixed what I typed.
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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#9

Post by OPTIMUS SILENS » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:42 am

MOJ ARTA se me dukesh pak kaure apo shqiptare mund te the vetem kete fjalet te perdicme qe perdorin shqipetare te cilat kan vetem deri 4 germe ha pi rri fle noto dett edhe shume te tjera jan fjala qe jan illirian sepse asnje slav nuk i perdore nuk ka asnje fjalor qe ka fjall kaq shkrurt dhe tregon qe jane fjall barbare por kemi sigurusht influence latine greke dhe turke por keto fjale mbietuan sepse i perdornim per dite.
TANI LERI KETO MUABETE PER IDENTITETIN SHQIPETARE SEPSE SHQIPERIA ESHTE I FETMI VEND ME 50 DIALEKTE NE GJITHE TREVAT ARBEROR PRANDAJ DO ZOTI TE BASHKOHET ARBERIA ETNIKE.

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Re: The Albanian myth from William Maxwell (Albania – Greece)

#10

Post by Arta » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:29 am

HITLERI SHQIPETAR wrote:MOJ ARTA se me dukesh pak kaure apo shqiptare mund te the vetem kete fjalet te perdicme qe perdorin shqipetare te cilat kan vetem deri 4 germe ha pi rri fle noto dett edhe shume te tjera jan fjala qe jan illirian sepse asnje slav nuk i perdore nuk ka asnje fjalor qe ka fjall kaq shkrurt dhe tregon qe jane fjall barbare por kemi sigurusht influence latine greke dhe turke por keto fjale mbietuan sepse i perdornim per dite.
TANI LERI KETO MUABETE PER IDENTITETIN SHQIPETARE SEPSE SHQIPERIA ESHTE I FETMI VEND ME 50 DIALEKTE NE GJITHE TREVAT ARBEROR PRANDAJ DO ZOTI TE BASHKOHET ARBERIA ETNIKE.

Kujdes kur tu thuash njerezve c'fare jane apo tu vesh epitete, kur nuk ke haberin se per c'fare po flet, se nqs keshtu nuk duam njerez percares ne kete forum

Se sa dialekte ka gjuha jone, i di pak me mire se ty, ti ke akoma per te mesuar, keshtu bej mire te te lexhosh para se te flasesh, ose pyet mendjen para se te flasi goja apo ne kete rast gishtat! Nqs nuk po kupton, atehere do te besh mire te pyesesh.

KUPTOVE!
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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