"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#541

Post by Mallakastrioti » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:54 am

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"Studi critici" (f., 83)
Graziadio Isaia Ascoli
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#542

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Ne se eshte e vertet qe Iliret ishin te paret te cilet hyne ne epoken e Hekurit ne Gadishullin Ballkanik, ky eshte nje tregues i qarte qe kjo popullsi ka qene e nje niveli te larte jo vetem ne aspektin ushtarak (arme prej hekuri shume here me te forta apo rezistuese), por ne pergjithesi edhe ate bujqesor. Kjo gje pa tjeter qe ndikoi edhe ne aspekte apo fusha te tjera ku nuk mund te anashkalohet edhe ai kulturor. Figura (foto) eshte emeruar "Farketari i Vranistes" (Vraniste gjendet afer Bela Palanka ne Serbine e sotme) dhe eshte shembulli me i lashte (i vetem deri me sot gjithashtu) ne Ballkanin Qendror i statujave ne bronx. Statuja te tilla jane gjetur vetem ne Peleponez. Ky farketar gjithashtu eshte ne nje faze pune, pra duke farketuar metalin, me nje vegel tjeter prej metali dhe sigurisht ky operacion apo pune nuk mund te behej perveçse tjeter se me hekur, pra çekani duhet te kete qene prej hekuri. Ky artefakt i perket shekullit te VIII-VII dhe sot gjendet ne Muzeun e Beogradit. Karakteristike tjeter e ketij Farketari eshte koka e rruar. Ne se eshte e vertet qe Iliret sipas deshmive te autoreve te antikitetit, rruanin koken atehere nuk ka dyshim qe kemi te bejme jo vetem me nje art vendas, por mbi te gjitha edhe me nje banor autokton.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#543

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Toponimi Lushnje (?).
---

Le te mbeshtetemi çka sjell historiani I.Gjika ne librin e tij "Apolonia e Jonit dhe Bylisi i Ilirise" lidhur themelimit te Apolonise se Ilirise, ku ne faqen 18 citojme si me poshte.
"Kolonistet e pare qe u vendosen ishin korintas....Ata nuk ishin veçse 200 vete (Ref. S. Bizantus. De Urbibus et Populis, 110) dhe drejtoheshin nga oikisti Gylak..."

Pra numri i ketyre koloneve nuk kalonte 200 fryme.

Gjithashtu ne faqen 20 autori shton :

"Nderkohe qe sot rreth 500 m ne perendim te mureve rrenoje te Apolonise ruhet emertimi Magjyle, qe mund te jete mbetja e emrit te pare te ketij qyteti, Gylakea"

Por ne se do te citojme Bizantin, ai shkruan "''Apollonia, e para qytet i Ilirise, e banonin iliret si dhe Epidamin. Pastaj u derguan 200 koloniste korintas me ne krye Gylakun, i cili e quajti Gylake. Emri etnik apolloniates, femerorja apolloniatis''
Pra Korintasit kete emertim apo toponim, pra Apolloni e e gjeten aty , pasi Bizanti nuk shkruan aspak qe fillimisht ishte Gylakea dhe me vone u shnderrua ne Apollonia, perkundrazi shkruan qarte qe me mbas shkuan korintet dhe ja nderruan emrin.
Vazhdojme me tej. Ne se hipoteza e z. Gjika qendron, pra qe ne nder te prijesit korintas, Gylak edhe sot nje fushe jashte mureve rrethuese te Apolonise (theksoj jashte mureve rrethues) ekziston toponimi interesant Magjyle, atehere keta kolone u vendosen jashte qytetit, pra jo ne brendesi te tij (ne se eshte e vertet qe u ftuan prej ilireve-taulante, pra vendasit ne nje fare menyre e aprovuan ngulitjen e ketyre koloneve ne trevat apo vendbanimet ilire).
Ne nje monedhe e cila i perket vitit 229 p.k, ndeshim emrin e nje personaliteti tjeter te kohes me emrin interesant "LUSHNOS" (N. Ceka, 27) dhe ne figuren qe shohim kemi pershkrimin e kesaj monedhe, ku ndeshim kete emer si dhe simbolizmin karakteristik neper monedhat ilire te asaj periudhe. Siç dime qe nje figure e tille te skalitej neper monedha duhej te kishte qene i nje rendesie te veçante per kohen. Por a eshte e vertet qe Apollonia si vendbanim apo si shtrirje ka qene vetem qyteti qe njohim sot, apo ka pasur te themi provincat e veta perqark, te cilat mund te kene qene vendbanime apo ngulitje, por perhere jo me nje rendesi te veçante. Sipas arkeologjise keto vendbanime apo vendngulitje, kane ekzistuar perhere perreth qendrave (polisit=qytetit) kryesor dhe mendimi im eshte se emri i ketij personazhi, pra "LUSHNOS" ka ngelur ne toponim e sotem te qytetit Lushnje. Lidhur Apollonise se lashte si dhe vendbanimeve me nje rendesi te themi jo te veçante perreth saj, eshte zbuluar fare pak. Une mendoj se gjithe zona e Myzeqese nen toke fsheh qendra te rendesishme per kohen, pra ato qe sot quajme fshatra te nje qyteti, dhe Lushnja ne antikitet sigurisht duhet te kete qene e banuar dhe nje periferi e Apolonise.
---

E.C

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#544

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:48 pm

Je plotesisht i sakte Mallakastrioti. Bile dhe Straboni, te cilit i referohet propaganda greke, ne librin e tij te shtate thote keshtu:

εἶθ' ὁ Ἄψος ποταμὸς καὶ ὁ Ἄωος, ἐφ' ᾧ Ἀπολλωνία πόλις εὐνομωτάτη, κτίσμα Κορινθίων καὶ Κερκυραίων, τοῦ ποταμοῦ μὲν ἀπέχουσα σταδίους δέκα τῆς θαλάττης δὲ ἑξήκοντα.

Perkthimi qe i behet eshte teknikisht i sakte por ka nje problem:
  and then the Aoüs, {330} on which is situated Apollonia, {331} an exceedingly well-governed city, founded by the Corinthians and the Corcyraeans, and ten stadia distant from the river and sixty from the sea.  
Kjo sepse fjala κτίσμα vertete mund te perkthehet themelim, por kuptimi kryesor i saj eshte ndertuar. Ajo eshte nje derivat i οικειν, qe do te thote banoj. Pra nuk mund te dihet me siguri absolute, nese qyteti u ndertua ne krye te heres nga korinthiasit dhe korkyrasit. Per me teper, ne nuk dime asgje per etnicitetin e vertete te ketyre te fundit dhe ndryshimin e tyre nga banoret vendas, iliret.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#545

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:12 pm

Me 2002 nje ekip me arkeologe amerikane, pasi kreu germime ne Apoloni, u shprehen keshtu:
"It seemed to us that the sanctuary was already being used in the Archaic period," some 100-350 years earlier than the 1960 team had believed, he said
Ekipi i 1960 ishte nje ekip shqiptaro-rus, qe e vendosi daten e artifakteve, rreth shekullit te 6-te para Krishtit. Pra qyteti shkon shume perpara ne periudhen arkaike, ku termi "greke" s'kishte dale ne drite ende.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#546

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:32 pm

Pastaj, sic e kemi permendur dhe me pare, emri i Apollonise se Epirit ishte ne egzistence qe menjehere pas Luftes se Trojes:

Apollod. Epit.6.15c
Ἐλεφήνορος δὲ ἀποθανόντος ἐν Τροίᾳ, οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκριφέντες περὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον Ἀπολλωνίαν ᾤκησαν τὴν ἐν Ἠπείρῳ. καὶ οἱ τοῦ Τληπολέμου προσίσχουσι .Elephenor died in Troy, but his people were cast away in the Ionian gulf and inhabited Apollonia in Epirus.
per te cila datohet te pakten 500 vjete para shekullit te 6 te.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#547

Post by bardus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:49 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Pastaj, sic e kemi permendur dhe me pare, emri i Apollonise se Epirit ishte ne egzistence qe menjehere pas Luftes se Trojes:

Apollod. Epit.6.15c
Ἐλεφήνορος δὲ ἀποθανόντος ἐν Τροίᾳ, οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκριφέντες περὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον Ἀπολλωνίαν ᾤκησαν τὴν ἐν Ἠπείρῳ. καὶ οἱ τοῦ Τληπολέμου προσίσχουσι .Elephenor died in Troy, but his people were cast away in the Ionian gulf and inhabited Apollonia in Epirus.
per te cila datohet te pakten 500 vjete para shekullit te 6 te.
Duke pare kete harte te Epirit me ra ne sy emri nje qyteti ILIUM edhe disa emra te perdorur si 2 lumenj te quajtur AOUS, ACHERON, vajtja e ENEAS ne Butrint qe ishte koloni Dardane, Akejte jetonin aty pak me poshte ,mos valle edhe TROJA ka qene aty afer dhe Akejte donin te perzinin Dardanet qe po fuqizoheshin ne ato zona.Homeri e ka permendur se Akili dhe Hektori flisnin te njejte gjuhe.(me falni per shmangjen e temes).
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#548

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:08 pm

Bardus, sipas mitologjise, Enea gjate shtegtimit te tij per ne Itali, beri nje ndalese ne Epir(Butrint), u martua me Andromaken, duke themeluar nje qytet, te cilin e ndertoi kopje te Iliumit(Trojes) bile duke e emertuar dhe sipas tij.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#549

Post by bardus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Po Zeus dakort por a nuk eshte pak e cuditshme qe njerezit e Elephenor qe permende me pare te vijne nga Turqia dhe te vendosen ne Apolloni,ndersa nga Saranda ne Fier mund ta besh edhe me kembe.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#550

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:31 pm

bardus wrote:Po Zeus dakort por a nuk eshte pak e cuditshme qe njerezit e Elephenor qe permende me pare te vijne nga Turqia dhe te vendosen ne Apolloni,ndersa nga Saranda ne Fier mund ta besh edhe me kembe.
Po eshte e vertete e cuditshme, se si mundi Enea te gjente nje flote, me te cilen te transportonte mijra shpirtra, pasi qyteti i tij Troja gjendej ne rrethim prej 10 vjetesh, nga """greket""", te cilet zoteronin gjithe bregdetin.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#551

Post by Mallakastrioti » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Ilium e ndeshim jo vetem ne Cameri, por Ilium eshte quajtur edhe Kruja ne disa harta mesjetare. Nje gje eshte e sigurt , Shliman mund te kete zbuluar gjithçka, por stratigrafia ne arkeologji tashme nuk eshte me nje opinion (ndoshta ne kohen e Shliman ishte nje opinion). Shtresa ku Shliman pretendoi se nxorri ne pah Trojen dhe thesarin e Priamit, i perkasin nje periudhe shume me te vonte se shek VIII. Sot shumica e studiuesve kane bindjen se jo vetem stratigrafia apo shtresa tokesore i perket vetem shek. V-IV, apo III (e ve ne pikepyetje edhe une) periudha e keshtuaquajtur e ndermjetme helenistike dhe klasike, por ai thesar nuk mund te jete i periudhes arkaike (shek. VII). Menyra si eshte punuar nuk mund te jete i asaj periudhe. Gjithashtu muret e se keshtuquajtur "Troje" ne Turqine e sotme, menyra e ndertimit dhe blloqet e gurit nuk jane ato te kohes kur Homeri jetoi (sigurisht ne se Homeri ka ekzistuar ndonjehere edhe pse kam bindjen se keta ishin disa Homere apo lahutare te lashte qe kendonin kenget e moçme ne ndonje Lire te moçme, qe i ngjante Lahutes se Gegeve!)

http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic. ... 210#p26210
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#552

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:57 am

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Per autorin:
William Gordon East (November 19, 1902 - January 27, 1998) was an English geographer and writer. He studied at Cambridge University.

His work includes the following books:

The Union of Moldavia and Wallachia, 1859: An Episode in Diplomatic History
The Geography behind History
The Changing Map of Asia: A Political Geography
An historical geography of Europe
The Soviet Union
Our Fragmented World: An Introduction to Political Geography
The spirit and purpose of geography

For his essay on The Union of Moldavia and Wallachia, 1859: An Episode in Diplomatic History, he was awarded with the Thirlwall Prize Essay for 1927.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#553

Post by Mallakastrioti » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:43 am

Ku mesuan Malesoret shqiptare te mbajne floket (duke i dredhur si dhe menyren e mbajtjes) ne te njejten menyre si ato te "Greqise" se lashte?

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#554

Post by bardus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:02 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:D. Paulus apostulus in mari, quod nunc Venetus sinus dicitur, naufragus, et ...-pag.CLXXXVII
Nikola Marija Đur#-dević-1730-

Si thote ky miku mo si thote?


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"...Plutarku permend ne "Lib. de Liber.educ." Mbreteresha Maqedonase Euridice,gjyshja e Aleksandrit te Madh,me origjine Ilire("genere" lat.volgare.=genus= ORIGJINE),duke e quajtur ILIRE DHE FEMER BARBARE"....


Ec e mbushi mendjen Plutarkut qe nuk eshte si ka thene ai por siç thone greko-sllavet sot :D
Ne vazhdim te kesaj po sjell edhe dicka per Filipin dhe te emen Euridice.

Edukimi i Filipit te Maqedonise,babai te Aleksandrit te Madh.

Diodorus Siculus shkruan se, pas nje disfate kunder Ilireve , babai i Filipit Amyntas la peng djalin e tij Filipin tek Iliret te cilet e derguan ne Thebe dhe ja besuan babait te Epameinondas ,i cili u kujdes per ta rritur dhe per ta edukuar Filipin.Keshtu Epameinondas dhe Filipi te dy ndoqen shkollen filozofike te Pythagores.


Diodorus Siculus, Library
book 16, chapter 2

After Amyntas had been defeated by the Illyrians and forced to pay tribute to his conquerors, the Illyrians, who had taken Philip, the youngest son of Amyntas, as a hostage, placed him in the care of the Thebans.3 They in turn entrusted the lad to the father of Epameinondas and directed him both to keep careful watch over his ward and to superintend his upbringing and education. [3] Since Epameinondas had as his instructor a philosopher of the Pythagorean school,4 Philip, who was reared along with him, acquired a wide acquaintance with the Pythagorean philosophy. Inasmuch as both students showed natural ability and diligence they proved to be superior in deeds of valour. Of the two, Epameinondas underwent the most rigorous tests and battles, and invested his fatherland almost miraculously with the leadership of Hellas, while Philip, availing himself of the same initial training, achieved no less fame than Epameinondas.


Ndersa Plutarku permend gjyshen e Aleksandrit te Madh Euridice qe ishte Ilire dhe u kujdes per edukimin dhe shkollimin e femijve te saj.Ajo shkroi edhe nje epigram te cilin Plutarku e citon me poshte.


Plutarch, De liberis educandis
section 18:

And here we may take example from who, although she was an Illyrian, and so thrice a barbarian, yet applied herself to learning when she was well advanced in years, that she might teach her children. Her love towards her children appears evidently in this Epigram of hers, which she dedicated to the Muses: —

Eurydice to the Muses here doth raise
This monument, her honest love to praise;
Who her grown sons that she might scholars breed,
Then well in years, herself first learned to read.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#555

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:46 pm

And here we may take example from who, although she was an Illyrian, and so thrice a barbarian, yet applied herself to learning when she was well advanced in years, that she might teach her children.
Kjo fjali e perforcon idene time, se barbaret ndryshonin nga helenet, vetem ne lidhjen dhe edukimin religjioz. Ata nuk kishin diferenca etnike, prej tyre, por thjeshte helenet duhet te ishin nje grup i madh religjioz.
babai i Filipit Amyntas la peng djalin e tij Filipin tek Iliret te cilet e derguan ne Thebe dhe ja besuan babait te Epameinondas ,i cili u kujdes per ta rritur dhe per ta edukuar Filipin.
Ashtu si ne rastin e Pirros, Iliret shfaqen me nje autoritet dhe pushtet shume te madh, kesaj radhe ndaj "grekeve" te Tebes. Duket sikur Iliret ne fakt kane nen kontroll dhe territore jashte mbreterise se tyre, duke e intriguar me shume historine e lashtesise.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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