"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#541

Post by AgrianShigjetari » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:16 pm

Lidhje te shkelqyera mes fiseve keni gjetur Zeus & Albpelasgian

Pa i hequr as edhe nji presje diskutimit tuaj, do te shfrytezoja rastin te ju njoh me disa paragrafe injorante te Hammondit (filo-greku me i madh qe ka prodhuar ndonjehere Anglia) sesi mundohet t'i helenizoje Pellagonet e Derriopet.
“The district of Derriopus adjoined Illyrian territory, namely that of the Penestae, who were called 'Penestae Illyrii … bellicosum genus', when Pleuratus sent them to serve in the Macedonian army (Livy 44. 11. 7); as 2,000 were engaged in the defense of Cassandrea, they were a large tribe. Livy and Strabo both say that the Erigon rose in the 'Illyrian mountains' and this perhaps implies that the Penestae held the head of the valley, and that the frontier of Derriopus was not much above the defile of Styberra [see Map 9]... The territory Derriopus is clearly related to the river, as all its cities are said to have been beside it. As it is already a large river when it enters the plain, it forms a natural frontier with the Pelagones. Derriopus then was the district west and south of the river, [Macedonian] Styberra being at that time [BBB: p. 67 talks of different sites for Macedonian and Roman Styberra] on the right bank... the limits of Derriopus on the west may be set at the ridge between Demir Hisar and Suvodol... This country probably belonged to the Penestae. To the south of Demir Hissar there is a flat plain by Suvodol, and on crossing an oak-clad ridge one descends through a wide valley with arable slopes, which merges into the main Pelagonian plain just north of Monastir. It is likely then that the country to the south of Demir Hissar goes with the main plain, and that it belonged to the Derriopes. This receives some support from three inscriptions in Greek found at Suvodol ... These inscriptions are appropriate to the territory of the Derriopes and not that of the Penestae. The richest part of Derriopus was the plain west of Cerna Reka which is well watered by the tributaries flowing from the western hills... The Cerna Reka makes a great bend at Brod and flows north-eastwards into the difficult country known as the Morihovo. There the Derriopes held both sides of the river valley ... the river Osphagus was the river Semnica, and Pluinna, obeying the rule of Derriopan cities, was by the river near Trnovo ...” (Hammond; Macedonia Vol 1 69-71)

“The Pelagones held the plain east of the river and the hills to the east. One of the three cities of Strabo's Πελαγονια τριπολιτις was at Belovodica. Its name was perhaps Andraristus; for Ptol. 3. 13. 34 mentions only Andraristus and Stobi as cities of the Pelagones, and Andraristus was therefore probably close to the Roman road, as is the ancient site at Belovodica. Another city was Azorus, the only one named by Strabo (C 327). As Stobi was Paeonian in Strabo's time, the third city may have been Pissaeum, although Plb. 5. 108. 1 calls it a 'polisma'. As it was sacked by Scerdilaidas the Illyrian, it was probably in north-west Pelagonia. The frontier of Pelagonia marched with that of the Derriopes on the south-west, south, and south-east, and with that of the Illyrian Penestae of the Velcka valley on the north-west. To the east s frontier was most readily defended at the defile above the confluence of the Rajetz and the Cerna near the station 'Euristo. on the Roman road.” (Hammond; Macedonia Vol 1 71-72)

“Within the tribal states of the Lyncestae, the Dassaretii, the Antani, the Deriopes and the Pelagones there were smaller units. Such units were the Heracleotae, the Lychnidii and the Styberraei who lived mainly in an urban centre. Other units were smaller tribal groups. Thus within the large tribal state of the Pelagones we find η των Αργεσταιων πολις, which passed its own decrees and honoured a Roman proconsul ... and probably within the community of the Argestai we find a small community paying its devotion to Hera Νεαπολειτων το κοινον Ηραν θεον ετους ηος. In this case the dating by the Macedonian era to AD 150 shows that the Neapoleitae considered themselves to be Macedonians and so were Pelagonians not Paeonians. Within the tribal state of the Derriopi an inscription was found by Kazarow in the church of Pestani, south of the Cerna and south-east of Dunje, which recorded a vote of gratitude by Δοστωνεω[ν] το κοινον. Another inscription, this time in Latin and dating to AD 120, was found at Vitoliste, nowadays the chief place in the Morihovo district. This records the laying of boundary-markers between the Geneatae (possibly Ceneatae) and another group whose name ended in -xini. It seems likely that here too we have small communities of a tribal kind rather than of an urban character.// A smaller community still is the κωμη. The acts of such a community are recorded in Greek inscriptions found at Suvodol in western Derriopus (Spomenik 98 (1941-8) no. 58; see p. 70 above). Another is mentioned in an inscription found at Bela Tsarkva, a village to the north of Tsepicovo, where it was built into a church wall. It is dated by the Macedonian era to A.D. 192. It records a gift of money to τη Αλκομεναιων κωμη, ταις φυλαις, and arranges for four tribes to make sacrifices on the same day, one to Zeus Agoraeus and Hera in the agora and the other three 'at the altar in Alcomena (εν Αλκομενα) which the donor had made and inscribed and Octavius (?) had delighted in. Alcomena is a kome, a corporate group of persons known as the Alcomenaei, and there can be no doubt that it is one of several komai which made up Alalcomenae, one of the cities of the Derriopes (Str. 7 C 327 αι των Δευριοπων πολεις ... ων το Βρυανιον και Αλαλκομεναι και Στυβαρα); or the Derriopan cities were on the Erigon, and Bela Tsarkva is beside the northern branch of the Cerna, the Blato. The four tribes in the kome are presumably those of the polis of the Alalcomenai, and they presumably existed in all the constituent komai. The ephebic inscription which was found also at Bela Tsarkva begins with the words αλειφουσης της πολεως (not της κωμης) and the polis is probably Alalcomenae. The inscription is dated by the Macedonian era to A.D. 121. We may visualize here a polis of the early Dorian type, such as Sparta was in the time of Thucydides, ουτε ξυνοικισθεισης πολεως ... κατακωμας δε τω παλαιω της Ελλαδος τροπω οικισθεισης (Thuc. 1. 10.2).

This structure of large tribal groups, containing lesser tribal groups, and forming into political units of εθνος, φυλη, πολις, κωμη, and κοινον, is one which we should regard in central and southern Greece as typical of the archaic period. Was it indigenous in these remote north-western territories or was it imposed by Macedonian or Roman rulers? All historical parallels suggest that it was indigenous, a survival of a system congenial to the peoples of this high and mountainous terrain and as old as the time of their first arrival. The ethnos and the komai were already in Lyncus in the fifth century (Thuc. 2. 99. 2 and 4. 124. 4). If the structure is Greek, it may not be exclusively Greek; for all we know, the Illyrian Penestae or the Dardanii may have had similar institutions. But there is another point of distinction, not only the use of Greek speech but the very high proportion of Greek names. The ephebic lists found at Tsepicovo, being evidently those of the Styberraei, and those of the ephebarchus and the ephebes found at Beta Tsarkva, being probably those of the Alalcomenaei, contain a great many names. These are almost to a man Greek names; the exceptions are some Latin names, due no doubt to legionary fathers, and an occasional Illyrian or Thracian name, such as Epicadus, Beithys, Sitas, and Getriporis. If the Derriopes were in fact Illyrians or Thracians in descent, it is impossible to account for the purity of their Greek speech and for the almost complete dominance of Greek names, especially as the occasional one which is admitted cannot be regarded as substantial evidence of Illyrian or Thracian survival. It seems clear that these people were Greek by descent; that is they bore the mark of institutions, language, and nomenclature which distinguished the Hellenic tribes from their neighbours, and they were Greek in this sense before they became Macedonian in a political sense.

The closest parallels to the origin and situation of the Derriopes, Pelagones, and the others are to be seen in the tribes of Epirus, which were also neighbours of Illyrians. There we have the same tribal structures in large groups, e.g. Molossi or Chaones, and numerous small tribes making up a large group but each having its own koinon; the same use of Greek language and the same dominance of Greek nomenclature, both seen from inscriptions of 370-368 B.C. and neither attributable to the extension of Macedonian rule. But, more than this, we have a close similarity in the formation of the ethnics of north-western Macedonia and of Epirus: Lyncestae, Dolenestae and (in Epirus) Hyncestae, Ethnestae, Orestae; Derriopes and Hellopes; Alcomenaei and Eurymenaei; Argestaei and Aegestaei; Limnaei and Larisaei; Combreatae, Geneatae, (?) Maleiatae and Oriatae, Phylatae, Edonesatae; Pelagones and Chaones, Amymones, Sylliones. The names of the Derriopan cities are also comparable to those in Epirus: Styberra (Strabo's Stybara) to Kemara (modern Himarre), Alalcomenae to Eurymenae, Bryanium to Bryanium, Pluinna to Gitana. These analogies are so close that we have no reason to doubt the ancient tradition in Str. 7 C 326 and 9 C 434 that the Pelagones, Elimiotae, and Orestae, and in general the inland tribes bordering on the Illyrian mountains (οι υπερκειμενοι και συναπτοντες τοις Ιλλυρικοις ορεσι) were Epirotic tribes. I shall discuss later the origin and significance of Strabo's statements. They rest upon observations of ethnic relationships rather than of a way of life; for Strabo goes on in C 326 fin. to say that 'some' (indicating a different source) call the whole area up to Corcyra 'Macedonia' because of similarities of tonsure, dialect, and dress (the chlamys).
While we have the geography of the north-western area in mind, it is desirable to note the extent of Strabo's statement in C 326. The Illyrian mountains begin for him in book 7 to the north of the Via Egnatia, and the traveller has on his right 'the Epirotic tribes’ (C 323); in general these tribes lying inland and bordering on the Illyrian mountains occupy rough country, and some of them are 'close to the Macedonians’ rather (than to ? central Epirus), whereupon Orestias is mentioned (C 326). But the Illyrian tribes are interspersed there, that is those tribes by the south part of the (Illyrian) mountain range and those inland of the Ionian Gulf; for the Bylliones and Taulantii (being inland of the Ionian Gulf) and the Parthini and the Brygi (being at the southern end of the Illyrian range, ie. where the Shkumbi cuts through it) live inland of Epidamnus and Apollonia. After a short digression he adds apparently to his list of 'the Epirotic tribes' the Lyncestae, Derriopus, Pelagonia, the Eordi, Elimea, and Eratyra. And at the end of the chapter he explains, as he does also at C 434, that as a result of imperialism the Epirotes close to the Macedonians became part of their domains and indeed all except a few inland of the Ionian Gulf (C 326 fin. Πλην ολιγων των υπερ του Ιονιου κολπου). Now if his list of the interspersed Illyrian tribes is complete, it means that the Dassaretii, the Amantes, the Parauaei, and the Chaones are regarded by him as Epirotic, and of these the few close to Macedonia and inland of the Ionian Gulf who escaped Macedonia's clutches were the Dassaretii and the Parauaei. There are also independent reasons for supposing these two peoples to have been in some sense Epirotic; for FGrH I (Hecataeus) F 103 describes the Dexari—those after whom the district Dassaretis was named—as a Chaonian tribe living under Mt. Amyron, which is the great mountain behind Berat, Mt. Tomor; and FGrH 265 (Rhianus) F 19 attributes the Parauaei to Epirus as a Thesprotian tribe. I conclude then that the Dassaretii were a Greek-speaking people of the so-called Epirotic group, akin to the Lyncestae and the Orestae, for instance, and to the more southerly tribes of the Chaones. (2)
(2) Because the territory west of Macedonia and north of Epirus was known generally as Illyris and later was part of the Roman province of Illyric” (Hammond; Macedonia Vol 1 88-92)
Ky njeri s'asht n'tokes t'bukes, si thot fjala. Ne njeren ane pranon menyren e organizimit qe ishte shume e ngjashme me at' ilire e ne anen tjeter sebet ca mbishkrimeve (te shkruejtuna ne nje greqishte pedante) na i nxjerr per grek :mrgreen:
Ky Hammondi jo qe s'ka qene n'dijeni, por thjesht i ka fshehur lidhjet e ketij kompleksi fisesh me simotrat e tyre ne Dalmaci ne menyre qe te arrije qellimin djallezor te de-ilirizimit te ketij rajoni....

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#542

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:56 am

Medalje te lashta dhe "enigmatike" prej territoreve ilire. Ne librin
"Descrizione di molte medaglie antiche greche esistenti in più ... "
Domenico Sestini - 1828, kemi diçka interesante lidhur nje medalje qe autori e pershkruan, por nuk di ti japi shpjegim si ka mundesi qe ne ishullin e Farit (ku lindi edhe Dhimiter Fari) kemi te shkruar emrin e Homerit mbi kete medalje. Medalja ne nje ane ka koken e Zeus (sipas autorit), por ai shton se nje e ngjashme apo identike po ne anen e kokes ne vend te Zeus ka te shkruar "OMIRIS=HOMER"
"Ne muzeun Hedervariano jane 6 medalje te ngjashme dhe ne njeren prej tyre ne anen e kokes lexohet OMIROS (=Homer)..."

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#543

Post by Mallakastrioti » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:54 am

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"Studi critici" (f., 83)
Graziadio Isaia Ascoli
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#544

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Ne se eshte e vertet qe Iliret ishin te paret te cilet hyne ne epoken e Hekurit ne Gadishullin Ballkanik, ky eshte nje tregues i qarte qe kjo popullsi ka qene e nje niveli te larte jo vetem ne aspektin ushtarak (arme prej hekuri shume here me te forta apo rezistuese), por ne pergjithesi edhe ate bujqesor. Kjo gje pa tjeter qe ndikoi edhe ne aspekte apo fusha te tjera ku nuk mund te anashkalohet edhe ai kulturor. Figura (foto) eshte emeruar "Farketari i Vranistes" (Vraniste gjendet afer Bela Palanka ne Serbine e sotme) dhe eshte shembulli me i lashte (i vetem deri me sot gjithashtu) ne Ballkanin Qendror i statujave ne bronx. Statuja te tilla jane gjetur vetem ne Peleponez. Ky farketar gjithashtu eshte ne nje faze pune, pra duke farketuar metalin, me nje vegel tjeter prej metali dhe sigurisht ky operacion apo pune nuk mund te behej perveçse tjeter se me hekur, pra çekani duhet te kete qene prej hekuri. Ky artefakt i perket shekullit te VIII-VII dhe sot gjendet ne Muzeun e Beogradit. Karakteristike tjeter e ketij Farketari eshte koka e rruar. Ne se eshte e vertet qe Iliret sipas deshmive te autoreve te antikitetit, rruanin koken atehere nuk ka dyshim qe kemi te bejme jo vetem me nje art vendas, por mbi te gjitha edhe me nje banor autokton.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#545

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Toponimi Lushnje (?).
---

Le te mbeshtetemi çka sjell historiani I.Gjika ne librin e tij "Apolonia e Jonit dhe Bylisi i Ilirise" lidhur themelimit te Apolonise se Ilirise, ku ne faqen 18 citojme si me poshte.
"Kolonistet e pare qe u vendosen ishin korintas....Ata nuk ishin veçse 200 vete (Ref. S. Bizantus. De Urbibus et Populis, 110) dhe drejtoheshin nga oikisti Gylak..."

Pra numri i ketyre koloneve nuk kalonte 200 fryme.

Gjithashtu ne faqen 20 autori shton :

"Nderkohe qe sot rreth 500 m ne perendim te mureve rrenoje te Apolonise ruhet emertimi Magjyle, qe mund te jete mbetja e emrit te pare te ketij qyteti, Gylakea"

Por ne se do te citojme Bizantin, ai shkruan "''Apollonia, e para qytet i Ilirise, e banonin iliret si dhe Epidamin. Pastaj u derguan 200 koloniste korintas me ne krye Gylakun, i cili e quajti Gylake. Emri etnik apolloniates, femerorja apolloniatis''
Pra Korintasit kete emertim apo toponim, pra Apolloni e e gjeten aty , pasi Bizanti nuk shkruan aspak qe fillimisht ishte Gylakea dhe me vone u shnderrua ne Apollonia, perkundrazi shkruan qarte qe me mbas shkuan korintet dhe ja nderruan emrin.
Vazhdojme me tej. Ne se hipoteza e z. Gjika qendron, pra qe ne nder te prijesit korintas, Gylak edhe sot nje fushe jashte mureve rrethuese te Apolonise (theksoj jashte mureve rrethues) ekziston toponimi interesant Magjyle, atehere keta kolone u vendosen jashte qytetit, pra jo ne brendesi te tij (ne se eshte e vertet qe u ftuan prej ilireve-taulante, pra vendasit ne nje fare menyre e aprovuan ngulitjen e ketyre koloneve ne trevat apo vendbanimet ilire).
Ne nje monedhe e cila i perket vitit 229 p.k, ndeshim emrin e nje personaliteti tjeter te kohes me emrin interesant "LUSHNOS" (N. Ceka, 27) dhe ne figuren qe shohim kemi pershkrimin e kesaj monedhe, ku ndeshim kete emer si dhe simbolizmin karakteristik neper monedhat ilire te asaj periudhe. Siç dime qe nje figure e tille te skalitej neper monedha duhej te kishte qene i nje rendesie te veçante per kohen. Por a eshte e vertet qe Apollonia si vendbanim apo si shtrirje ka qene vetem qyteti qe njohim sot, apo ka pasur te themi provincat e veta perqark, te cilat mund te kene qene vendbanime apo ngulitje, por perhere jo me nje rendesi te veçante. Sipas arkeologjise keto vendbanime apo vendngulitje, kane ekzistuar perhere perreth qendrave (polisit=qytetit) kryesor dhe mendimi im eshte se emri i ketij personazhi, pra "LUSHNOS" ka ngelur ne toponim e sotem te qytetit Lushnje. Lidhur Apollonise se lashte si dhe vendbanimeve me nje rendesi te themi jo te veçante perreth saj, eshte zbuluar fare pak. Une mendoj se gjithe zona e Myzeqese nen toke fsheh qendra te rendesishme per kohen, pra ato qe sot quajme fshatra te nje qyteti, dhe Lushnja ne antikitet sigurisht duhet te kete qene e banuar dhe nje periferi e Apolonise.
---

E.C

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#546

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:48 pm

Je plotesisht i sakte Mallakastrioti. Bile dhe Straboni, te cilit i referohet propaganda greke, ne librin e tij te shtate thote keshtu:

εἶθ' ὁ Ἄψος ποταμὸς καὶ ὁ Ἄωος, ἐφ' ᾧ Ἀπολλωνία πόλις εὐνομωτάτη, κτίσμα Κορινθίων καὶ Κερκυραίων, τοῦ ποταμοῦ μὲν ἀπέχουσα σταδίους δέκα τῆς θαλάττης δὲ ἑξήκοντα.

Perkthimi qe i behet eshte teknikisht i sakte por ka nje problem:
  and then the Aoüs, {330} on which is situated Apollonia, {331} an exceedingly well-governed city, founded by the Corinthians and the Corcyraeans, and ten stadia distant from the river and sixty from the sea.  
Kjo sepse fjala κτίσμα vertete mund te perkthehet themelim, por kuptimi kryesor i saj eshte ndertuar. Ajo eshte nje derivat i οικειν, qe do te thote banoj. Pra nuk mund te dihet me siguri absolute, nese qyteti u ndertua ne krye te heres nga korinthiasit dhe korkyrasit. Per me teper, ne nuk dime asgje per etnicitetin e vertete te ketyre te fundit dhe ndryshimin e tyre nga banoret vendas, iliret.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#547

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:12 pm

Me 2002 nje ekip me arkeologe amerikane, pasi kreu germime ne Apoloni, u shprehen keshtu:
"It seemed to us that the sanctuary was already being used in the Archaic period," some 100-350 years earlier than the 1960 team had believed, he said
Ekipi i 1960 ishte nje ekip shqiptaro-rus, qe e vendosi daten e artifakteve, rreth shekullit te 6-te para Krishtit. Pra qyteti shkon shume perpara ne periudhen arkaike, ku termi "greke" s'kishte dale ne drite ende.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#548

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:32 pm

Pastaj, sic e kemi permendur dhe me pare, emri i Apollonise se Epirit ishte ne egzistence qe menjehere pas Luftes se Trojes:

Apollod. Epit.6.15c
Ἐλεφήνορος δὲ ἀποθανόντος ἐν Τροίᾳ, οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκριφέντες περὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον Ἀπολλωνίαν ᾤκησαν τὴν ἐν Ἠπείρῳ. καὶ οἱ τοῦ Τληπολέμου προσίσχουσι .Elephenor died in Troy, but his people were cast away in the Ionian gulf and inhabited Apollonia in Epirus.
per te cila datohet te pakten 500 vjete para shekullit te 6 te.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#549

Post by bardus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:49 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Pastaj, sic e kemi permendur dhe me pare, emri i Apollonise se Epirit ishte ne egzistence qe menjehere pas Luftes se Trojes:

Apollod. Epit.6.15c
Ἐλεφήνορος δὲ ἀποθανόντος ἐν Τροίᾳ, οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκριφέντες περὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον Ἀπολλωνίαν ᾤκησαν τὴν ἐν Ἠπείρῳ. καὶ οἱ τοῦ Τληπολέμου προσίσχουσι .Elephenor died in Troy, but his people were cast away in the Ionian gulf and inhabited Apollonia in Epirus.
per te cila datohet te pakten 500 vjete para shekullit te 6 te.
Duke pare kete harte te Epirit me ra ne sy emri nje qyteti ILIUM edhe disa emra te perdorur si 2 lumenj te quajtur AOUS, ACHERON, vajtja e ENEAS ne Butrint qe ishte koloni Dardane, Akejte jetonin aty pak me poshte ,mos valle edhe TROJA ka qene aty afer dhe Akejte donin te perzinin Dardanet qe po fuqizoheshin ne ato zona.Homeri e ka permendur se Akili dhe Hektori flisnin te njejte gjuhe.(me falni per shmangjen e temes).
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#550

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:08 pm

Bardus, sipas mitologjise, Enea gjate shtegtimit te tij per ne Itali, beri nje ndalese ne Epir(Butrint), u martua me Andromaken, duke themeluar nje qytet, te cilin e ndertoi kopje te Iliumit(Trojes) bile duke e emertuar dhe sipas tij.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#551

Post by bardus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Po Zeus dakort por a nuk eshte pak e cuditshme qe njerezit e Elephenor qe permende me pare te vijne nga Turqia dhe te vendosen ne Apolloni,ndersa nga Saranda ne Fier mund ta besh edhe me kembe.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#552

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:31 pm

bardus wrote:Po Zeus dakort por a nuk eshte pak e cuditshme qe njerezit e Elephenor qe permende me pare te vijne nga Turqia dhe te vendosen ne Apolloni,ndersa nga Saranda ne Fier mund ta besh edhe me kembe.
Po eshte e vertete e cuditshme, se si mundi Enea te gjente nje flote, me te cilen te transportonte mijra shpirtra, pasi qyteti i tij Troja gjendej ne rrethim prej 10 vjetesh, nga """greket""", te cilet zoteronin gjithe bregdetin.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#553

Post by Mallakastrioti » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Ilium e ndeshim jo vetem ne Cameri, por Ilium eshte quajtur edhe Kruja ne disa harta mesjetare. Nje gje eshte e sigurt , Shliman mund te kete zbuluar gjithçka, por stratigrafia ne arkeologji tashme nuk eshte me nje opinion (ndoshta ne kohen e Shliman ishte nje opinion). Shtresa ku Shliman pretendoi se nxorri ne pah Trojen dhe thesarin e Priamit, i perkasin nje periudhe shume me te vonte se shek VIII. Sot shumica e studiuesve kane bindjen se jo vetem stratigrafia apo shtresa tokesore i perket vetem shek. V-IV, apo III (e ve ne pikepyetje edhe une) periudha e keshtuaquajtur e ndermjetme helenistike dhe klasike, por ai thesar nuk mund te jete i periudhes arkaike (shek. VII). Menyra si eshte punuar nuk mund te jete i asaj periudhe. Gjithashtu muret e se keshtuquajtur "Troje" ne Turqine e sotme, menyra e ndertimit dhe blloqet e gurit nuk jane ato te kohes kur Homeri jetoi (sigurisht ne se Homeri ka ekzistuar ndonjehere edhe pse kam bindjen se keta ishin disa Homere apo lahutare te lashte qe kendonin kenget e moçme ne ndonje Lire te moçme, qe i ngjante Lahutes se Gegeve!)

http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic. ... 210#p26210
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#554

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:57 am

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Per autorin:
William Gordon East (November 19, 1902 - January 27, 1998) was an English geographer and writer. He studied at Cambridge University.

His work includes the following books:

The Union of Moldavia and Wallachia, 1859: An Episode in Diplomatic History
The Geography behind History
The Changing Map of Asia: A Political Geography
An historical geography of Europe
The Soviet Union
Our Fragmented World: An Introduction to Political Geography
The spirit and purpose of geography

For his essay on The Union of Moldavia and Wallachia, 1859: An Episode in Diplomatic History, he was awarded with the Thirlwall Prize Essay for 1927.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#555

Post by Mallakastrioti » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:43 am

Ku mesuan Malesoret shqiptare te mbajne floket (duke i dredhur si dhe menyren e mbajtjes) ne te njejten menyre si ato te "Greqise" se lashte?

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