"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#586

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:48 am

Geographically it is significant that ancient Macedonian, a link between Greek and the languages of the North, also de-aspirates 31 and is, therefore, clearly distinguished from Greek.

Studies in the Origins of the Celts and of Early Celtic Civilisation, Heinrich Hans WAGNER - 1971, p. 211
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Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#587

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:12 am

The Selloi were inhabitants of Epirus in ancient Greece, in a region between Dodona—site of the oldest reported oracle—and the Achelous river; Aristotle named the area ancient Hellas. A group who were formerly called Graeci (Graikoi) and later Hellenes lived there as well.(Wikipedia)
---
Archaeologia: Or Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity, Volume 2, f.247

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Selloi?
Prifterinje te Dodones me prejardhje kelte, pra popullsi kelte te cilat lene gjurme jo vetem ne Ballkan, por edhe me tej . Keta prifterinje sigurisht qe do i sherbenin nje popullsie qe do kuptonte gjuhen e tyre.
Cili ishte misioni i ketyre prifterinjeve? A nuk ishte misioni i tyre te keshillonin?
Keshilloj=ke-shilloj=qe-shoh (shoh te ardhmen), pra dikush qe shellen te ardhmen, qe sheh...(ke-sheh=qe-sheh)
Nuk kemi arsye te mos besojme qe gjeneza e atyre qe do njiheshin si Helene, apo KE-LEN=Qe LEN (-Leh- ne kuptimin, me fol/tregoj/them ), pra ky popull qe merr emrin prej ketyre kujdestareve te tempullit te lashte te Dodones, jo vetem ishin popullsi veriore kelte, por ne shqip u ruajten te dyja trajtat qe kane te bejne me fonetiken (zerin), si ajo e foljes "leh" edhe ajo e fjales "kelt"

KËLTHAS jokal. dhe kal.
Thërras me zë të lartë, bërtas me të madhe, nxjerr klithma; i thërras dikujt; qaj me zë të lartë.

Pasi keto popullsi veriore perpara popullsise qe gjeten aty ne menyren e te folurit (me ze te larte) dukeshin sikur kelthisnin.
Elementi kelt, per mendimin tim, pa tjeter qe u nderthur me elementin apo popullsine qe gjeten ne Ballkan dhe ishin pikerisht keta kelt te cilet u quajten Dore, ardhur prej veriut te cilet ndertuan mure te keshtuquajtur ciklopik apo pellazgjik. Ishin pikerisht keta njerez qe dukeshin sikur kelthisnin kur flisnin, te cilet tre mije vjet me pare u dynden ne ate qe do njihej si Greqia e Lashte.
Vet fjala "DUW-DUN" (Dodone), mendoj se ka lidhje pikerisht me fjalen "DIV", fjale e cila edhe pse haset edhe ne gjuhe te tjera, ne mitologjine shqiptare sillet si me poshte:

DIV m.
1. mit. Figurë e përrallave popullore, që parafytyrohej si një përbindësh me trup jashtëzakonisht të madh e me fuqi mbinjerëzore, i cili ha shumë, rrëmben njerëz etj. dhe banon zakonisht në shpella a nën tokë.

Pra nje figure qe jeton nen toke. A nuk ishte Zeus i Hadit ( Ζεύς Ἅιδης) Zoti i nentokes dhe i ferrit, gjithashtu ne mitologjine greke?
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#588

Post by Mallakastrioti » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:22 pm

Ndoshta eshte risjell ne kete forum, por do desha ta diskutoj:
Pausania ne vepren e tij te VII (Achaea) "Pershkrimi i Greqise" na sjell tre fise apo vendbanime fisesh me emra interesante (fise te cilat gjendeshin mu ne zemer te Greqise ne kohen e tij) te cilet do shqiperoheshin pa kurrefare hezitimi:
Argjiret, Bylinet dhe Arbanet:

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Πατρεῖ μὲν τοιαῦτα ἐς τοὺς προγόνους ὑπάρχοντα ἦν: ἰδίᾳ δὲ ἀνὰ χρόνον Πατρεῖς διέβησαν ἐς Αἰτωλίαν Ἀχαιῶν μόνοι κατὰ φιλίαν τὴν Αἰτωλῶν, τὸν πόλεμόν σφισι τὸν πρὸς Γαλάτας συνδιοίσοντες. προσπταίσαντες δ᾽ ἐν ταῖς μάχαις λόγου μειζόνως καὶ ὑπὸ πενίας ἅμα οἱ πολλοὶ πιεζόμενοι Πάτρας μὲν πλὴν ὀλίγων τινῶν ἐκλείπουσιν: οἱ δὲ ἄλλοι κατὰ χώραν ὑπὸ φιλεργίας ἐσκεδάσθησαν καὶ πολίσματα παρὲξ αὐτὰς Πάτρας τοσάδε ἄλλα ᾤκησαν, Μεσάτιν καὶ Ἄνθειαν καὶ Βολίνην καὶ Ἀργυρᾶν τε καὶ ἌρβανSuch was the genealogy of Patreus. In course of time the people of Patrae on their own account crossed into Aetolia; they did this out of friendship for the Aetolians, to help them in their war with the Gauls, and no other Achaeans joined them. But suffering unspeakable disasters in the fighting, and most of them being also crushed by poverty, all with the exception of a few left Patrae, and scattered, owing to their love of agriculture, up and down the country, dwelling in, besides Patrae, the following towns: Mesatis, Antheia, Bolina, Argyra and Arba.
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#589

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:11 pm

Keto jane qytetet qe mendohet qe ndodheshin ne Akainë e lashte:

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Per ca arsye, qe helenistet, nuk na i shpjegojne, akejte dhe iliret i emertonin qytetet e tyre me te njejtat emra, njeri prej te cileve, perkon me emrin mesjetar te vete shqiptareve.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#590

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Ne librin Philologikos Syllogos Parnassos, Volume 1, autori, duke ju referuar Anna Komnenes, shkruan:

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Ίλλυρομακεδονικοηπειρωτικοΰ λαοΰ άναφανέν ΰπό τό όνομα Αλβανοί η Άρβανϊται (Αννα Κομνηνη σελ. 132 )

Popujt Iliro-maqedon-epirotik shfaqen nen emrin Albanian apo Arvanit(Ana Komnena faqe 132)

Ngelet per te pare, nese ky eshte nje interpretim i autorit, apo eshte nje konstatim i Ana Komnenes, ne ligjerate te drejte.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#591

Post by amathia » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:33 am

a mun m'nimue dikus per kt tekst :

para falem neroj....
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#592

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:38 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Ne librin Philologikos Syllogos Parnassos, Volume 1, autori, duke ju referuar Anna Komnenes, shkruan:

Image

Ίλλυρομακεδονικοηπειρωτικοΰ λαοΰ άναφανέν ΰπό τό όνομα Αλβανοί η Άρβανϊται (Αννα Κομνηνη σελ. 132 )

Popujt Iliro-maqedon-epirotik shfaqen nen emrin Albanian apo Arvanit(Ana Komnena faqe 132)

Ngelet per te pare, nese ky eshte nje interpretim i autorit, apo eshte nje konstatim i Ana Komnenes, ne ligjerate te drejte.

Ilirjan Gjika (historian, njohes i vepres se Komnenes):
Po eshe e vertete, gjendet. Eshte nje citim nga vepra e saj. Mardheniet e familjes se Ana Komnenit ( Babait Aleks dhe bashkeshortit Vasillaq ) ishin aq te dendura me arberit, sa qe ajo zoteronte nje informacion te gjere dhe te hiollesishem, te cilin e perdori pa ngurim ne shkrimet e veta. Natyrisht qe Ana shkroi duke u bazuar ne nivelin e dijes se kohes se saj dhe nuk shkroi nga pozitat e nacionalizmit ekstrem, i cili ka bere qe historia te mos jete me fakt por argument...

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#593

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:45 pm

Ballkani i lashte, per mendimin tim, u ofronte popujve qe jetonin aty pak a shume te njejtat mundesi jetese sikurse sot; pra, te merreshin me bujqesi, blektori, artizanat dhe tregeti. Bota e lashte ne menyre te pa drejte eshte mitizuar aq teper sa ne mendjen e njerezve modern imagjinohet si nje bote ku zoteronte arti, muzika, filozofia etj.,por diçka e tille jo vetem nuk eshte e vertet, por edhe pa baza.
Cfare u ofronte territori i Ballkanit popullsive qe banonin aty? Ne se eshte e vertet qe popullsite ishin popullsi baritore (blektorale) apo bujqesore, atehere edhe emrat e fiseve qe banonin aty duhet te kishin lidhje me çka merreshin keto fise.Pra, nuk kemi perse te mos marim si te mireqene tezen qe emrat e fiseve Ilire, Maqedonase apo Epirote (dhe pjeserisht ndoshta edhe ato Helene) kishin lidhje me kafshet (shtepiake dhe jo) qe popullonin kete gadishull. Ne se eshte e vertet qe toponimi Ulqin, cilesuar si fjale ilire, ka nje lidhje gati te drejteperdrejt me fjalen shqipe ujk (ulk=ujk) sikurse fjala Taulant (Ταυλάντιοι) me fjalen shqipe "dallandyshe" (Τα(υ)λάντ), apo emri i fisit te Dalmateve (me fjalen shqipe delmë, dele), atehere nuk kemi arsye qe kete kriter te mos e perdorim edhe per emrat e fiseve te tjera (sigurisht aty ku do ishte e mundur te aplikohej diçka e tille) te cilat ne se do i verenim me kujdes mbartin keto tipare.
Le ta nisim me disa emra fisesh Ilire si me poshte:

Deretini/ Derriopes (Δερρίοπες)

DERR m.
1. Kafshë shtëpiake me trup e me qafë të trashë, me këmbë të shkurtra e me turi të zgjatur, që rritet për t'i marrë mishin, dhjamin e kreshtën

Dasaretet (Δασσαρῆται)

DASH m.
1. Mashkulli i deles. Dash i bardhë (i zi). Dash i egër dash me brirë të përkulur që rron zakonisht në pllajat e maleve të larta

Deuri/Derrioi
(shih fjalen "derr")

Dyestes/Dyestae [Δυέσται)

DHISHKË f.
Dele e murrme.

Damastion ( Δαμάστιον)

DEM m.
1. Viç dy-tre vjeç; ka i ri dhe i patredhur, që mbahet për ndërzim. Dem i fortë.
Dem race (damazi). Demat e ndërzimit.

(Damas-tion <---> damazi=interesante kjo pike)

Enkelei ( Ἐγχελεῖς))

NGJALË f.
1. zool. Peshk që rron në det dhe në ujëra të ëmbla, me trup të gjatë e të hollë si të gjarprit, pa luspa e me mish të shijshëm. Ngjalë lumi (liqeni)

Baridustae

BARI I m.
1. Ai që kullot, që ruan dhe që mbarështon bagëtinë, çoban. Bari lopësh (dhensh, dhish, derrash).

Breuket (Βρεῦκοι)

BRIKOÇ mb.
1. Që ka një bri të thyer, briçe (për kafshë). Ka brikoç. Dhi brikoçe.
2. Përd. em. sipas kuptimit të mbiemrit.
BRIKULAÇ mb.
1. Që i ka brirët përpara e të kthyer si kulaç (për dhi, lopë etj.). Dash brikulaç.
2. Përd. em. sipas kuptimit të mbiemrit.

Mazaioi (Μαζαῖοι)

MËZ m.
Pjella e pelës; kalë i ri dy a tre vjeç. Polli (bëri) pela një mëz. Mëz i bardhë (balash). Kërcen si mëz.
MËZAK m.
Viç mashkull gjashtë deri dymbëdhjetë muajsh.
MËZAT m.
Viç mashkull nga një deri në tre vjeç; dem i ri, ka i patredhur.
MËZATOR m.
Mëzat.
MËZATORE f.
1. Viçe një deri tri vjeçe ose deri sa pjell.
2. shih MËZOR/E,~JA 1.

...vazhdojme me tej me fiset e tjera epirote, maqedonase etj .
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#594

Post by TeuAL » Mon May 04, 2015 10:20 am

Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harta ngjitur eshte nga libri qe tregohet me lart. Ne kete histori autori eshte bazuar ne shkrimet e Ptolemeut, qe u be sundues i Egjiptit pas Lekes, si edhe ne shkrimet e arkitektit te Lekes, Aristobulus.

Pyetje: 'Agrianes' dhe 'Triballians' (ne harte) a jane pjese e Dardaneve ?

shenim:
1. permendet Syrmus, mbret i Triballian-eve
2. permendet Langaros, mbret i Agrianeve
3. Leka i shpreh deshiren Langaros qe te lidhe ne martese motren e tij Iliro-Maqedone Cyna me Langarus -in, Cyna eshte vajza e Filipit dhe gruas se tij Audata, Ilire prej 'Autariates'
4. permendet, ne spjegimet, fakti qe nena e Arrianus eshte me origjine nga 'Agrianes' dhe prej ketu edhe emri Arrian i historianit
5. takimet e Lekes me popujt e Ballkanit, qe tregohen ne harte, jane ngjarje te viteve 335 dhe 334 B.C.
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#595

Post by TeuAL » Fri May 08, 2015 5:51 am

TeuAL wrote:Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shenim:

4. permendet, ne spjegimet, fakti qe nena e Arrianus eshte me origjine nga 'Agrianes' dhe prej ketu edhe emri Arrian i historianit
================= Ndreqje ===================

Shenimi #4. me lart nuk qendron sepse eshte bere pasi kisha lexuar gabim < 'gens'_Agria > ne vend te shprehjes se sakte < 'gens'_Arria > sic tregohet ne ngjitje( fleta nr. 14 nga libri i Arrian ).
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#596

Post by TeuAL » Fri May 08, 2015 6:10 am

TeuAL wrote:Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harta ngjitur eshte nga libri qe tregohet me lart. Ne kete histori autori eshte bazuar ne shkrimet e Ptolemeut, qe u be sundues i Egjiptit pas Lekes, si edhe ne shkrimet e arkitektit te Lekes, Aristobulus.

shenim:
1. permendet Syrmus, mbret i Triballian-eve
2. permendet Langaros, mbret i Agrianeve
3. Leka i shpreh deshiren Langaros qe te lidhe ne martese motren e tij Iliro-Maqedone Cyna me Langaros -in, Cyna eshte vajza e Filipit dhe gruas se tij Audata, Ilire prej 'Autariates'
=====================================
Ngjitjet jane ( fletet nr.49 - 50 ) nga libri "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD) dhe tregojne per ate cka eshte thene ne shenimet #1, #2, dhe #3 qe citohen me larte.
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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#597

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:19 pm

Me duhet nji perkthim ma i sakte e me kuptimplot per kete pasazh:

προς μεν τους οὐχ ὑπολαμβάνοντας εἰναι την Θετταλίαν τῆς 'Ελλαδος, οὐδε τους Θετταλούς, ''Ελληνος ἀπογόνους οντας, ἑλληνιζειν ἐπι τοσοῦτον εἰρήσθώ

me aq sa guxoj me e perkthye del pak a shume kjo:

nuk asht si thone ata qe Thesalia asht Heladë, as Thesali nuk asht pasardhes i Helenit, edhe pse deri aty flitet greqisht.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#598

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:02 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Me duhet nji perkthim ma i sakte e me kuptimplot per kete pasazh:

προς μεν τους οὐχ ὑπολαμβάνοντας εἰναι την Θετταλίαν τῆς 'Ελλαδος, οὐδε τους Θετταλούς, ''Ελληνος ἀπογόνους οντας, ἑλληνιζειν ἐπι τοσοῦτον εἰρήσθώ

me aq sa guxoj me e perkthye del pak a shume kjo:

nuk asht si thone ata qe Thesalia asht Heladë, as Thesali nuk asht pasardhes i Helenit, edhe pse deri aty flitet greqisht.
Kjo eshte shkeputur nga Heraclitus Criticus

Ai thote, qe ne kuptimin e ngushte te fjales, nuk eshte Thesalia pjese e Greqise, por eshte Greqia pjese e Thesalise :
Let this suffice as an answer to those who do not believe that Thessaly is part of Hellas, north at the Thessalians, though they are the descendents of Hellen, speak Greek. Having set the boundary of Hellas at the outlet of Thessaly and by Homoliumin Magnesia, we have completed our treatise and conclude our account.
sepse Hellas, dikur paskesh qene vetem nje qytet i vogel ne Thesali
For Greece(Hellas) was once just a town in olden days, named for Hellen, the son of Zeus, and founded by him, being part of the territory of Thessaly, lying between Pharsalus and the city of the Melitaeans. So Hellenes are those whoare descended from Hellen and speak the Hellenic language inherited from Hellen.ἡ γὰρ ῾Ελλὰς, τὸ παλαιὸν οὖσά ποτε πόλις, ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος τοῦ ∆ιὸς ἐκλήθη τε καὶἐκτίσθη, τῆς τῶν Θετταλῶν οὖσα χώρας, ἀνὰ µέσον Φαρσάλου τε κειµένη καὶτῆς τῶν Μελιταιέων πόλεως. ῞Ελληνες µὲν γάρ εἰσιν τῶι γένει καὶ ταῖς φωναῖςἑ ηνίζουσιν ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος·
ἡ δὲ καλουµένη νῦν ῾Ε῾λλὰς λέγεται µὲν, οὐ µέντοι ἐστί. τὸ γὰρ ἑηνίζειν ἐγὼεἶναί φηµι οὐκ ἐν τῶι διαλέγεσθαι ὀρθῶς ἀ’ ἐν τῶι γένει τῆς φωνῆς. αὕτη (δ’) ἐστὶν ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος. ἡ δὲ ῾Ελλὰς ἐν Θετταλίαι κεῖται. ἐκείνους οὖν ἐροῦµεν τὴν῾Ελλάδα κατοικεῖν καὶ ταῖςφωναῖςἑηνίζειν. εἰδὲ καὶ κατὰ τὸ ἴδιον τοῦ γένους τῆς Θετταλίας ἡ ῾Ελλάς ἐστι, δίκαιον καὶ κατὰ τὸ κοινὸν,ὡς νῦν ὀνοµάζονται ῞Ελληνες, τῆς ῾Εάδος αὐτὴν εἶναι.[color=#4040FF]What is presently called Greece is a word, but not a reality[/color], for I maintain that ‘to hellenize’ or ‘speak Greek’ is not a matter of correct pronunciation but concerns the origin of the word. The word derives from Hellen. Hellas lies in Thessaly. Accordingly we shall say that those men inhabit Hellas, and ‘hellenize’ in their speech. Even if Hellas is a part of Thessaly with respect to its specific origins, it is appropriate in a general sense to take Thessaly as a part of Hellas, given the way the term ‘Hellenes’ is now used.
por tani vete Thesalia, mund te quhet pjese e Greqise, megjithese vete Greqia nuk eshte nje realitet(ne ate kohe), por vetem nje kuptim(fjale).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#599

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:04 pm

Falemnderit Zeus,

Kjo e Heraclides Criticus asht vertete interesante. Nga nji artikull online per po kete autor, thuhej se ai - megjithe perpjekjen - nuk arriti te jepte nji perkufizim gjitheperfshires per domethanien e identitetit helen ne kohen e tij. Ai thote qe helene jane pasardhesit e Helenit (kriteri i prejardhjes mitike) dhe foles te helenishtes (kriteri gjuhesor), por nuk arrin te permbledh edhe kritere te tjera kuintesenciale per nji etni. Cka m'u duk vecmas interesant ne fragmentin qe solle asht edhe ky pasus:

τὴν δὲ῾Ελλάδα ἀφορίσαντες ἕως τῶν Θετταλῶν στοµίου καὶ τοῦ Μαγνήτων῾Οµολίου , τὴνδιήγησιν πεποιηµένοι , καταπαύ o µεν τὸν λόγον .

Ky njoftim gjen perputhje edhe me pershkrimet e Strabonit dhe disa te tjereve, sipas te cileve, Thesalia shenonte kufirin ma verior te botes greke. Per Strabonin, lumi Pene formonte kufirin ndares midis Maqedonise (jo-greke) dhe Thesalise e Magnetise (ne momentin e dhane historik, greke).
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#600

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:53 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Falemnderit Zeus,

Kjo e Heraclides Criticus asht vertete interesante. Nga nji artikull online per po kete autor, thuhej se ai - megjithe perpjekjen - nuk arriti te jepte nji perkufizim gjitheperfshires per domethanien e identitetit helen ne kohen e tij. Ai thote qe helene jane pasardhesit e Helenit (kriteri i prejardhjes mitike) dhe foles te helenishtes (kriteri gjuhesor), por nuk arrin te permbledh edhe kritere te tjera kuintesenciale per nji etni.
Ndryshe nga cdo shtet tjeter i lashtesise, pavaresisht kritereve etnike apo jo, ne formimin e tyre, e ashtequajtura Hellada, asnjehere nuk u konfigurua ne rangun e nje shteti. Vete ky autor kur thote:
  ἡ δὲ καλουµένη νῦν ῾Ε῾λλὰς λέγεται µὲν, οὐ µέντοι ἐστί.
ajo qe ne tani e therrasim Hellade, eshte vecse nje mendim, nuk eshte realitet  
eshte i vetedijshem, se ky vend imagjinar, shpreh me shume nje deshire, se sa nje bashkesi etnike, qe mund te ngrihet ne rangun e nje kombi. Ky 'komb" eshte ngritur, vetem nga nje varg mitik i Homerit

Νῦν αὖ τοὺς ὅσσοι τὸ Πελασγικὸν Ἄργος ἔναιον, οἵ τ' Ἄλον οἵ τ' Ἀλόπην οἵ τε Τρηχῖνα νέμοντο,
οἵ τ' εἶχον Φθίην ἠδ' Ἑλλάδα καλλιγύναικα, Μυρμιδόνες δὲ καλεῦντο καὶ Ἕλληνες καὶ Ἀχαιοί, τῶν αὖ πεντήκοντα νεῶν ἦν ἀρχὸς Ἀχιλλεύς.


ne koken e ketyre autoreve "antike". Ata as e kane idene, se kush jane Helenet dhe prej nga vine
Cka m'u duk vecmas interesant ne fragmentin qe solle asht edhe ky pasus:

τὴν δὲ῾Ελλάδα ἀφορίσαντες ἕως τῶν Θετταλῶν στοµίου καὶ τοῦ Μαγνήτων῾Οµολίου , τὴνδιήγησιν πεποιηµένοι , καταπαύ o µεν τὸν λόγον .

Ky njoftim gjen perputhje edhe me pershkrimet e Strabonit dhe disa te tjereve, sipas te cileve, Thesalia shenonte kufirin ma verior te botes greke. Per Strabonin, lumi Pene formonte kufirin ndares midis Maqedonise (jo-greke) dhe Thesalise e Magnetise (ne momentin e dhane historik, greke).
Kjo harte e pershkruan pak a shume ate qe thone autoret e vjeter, une zgjodha Pseudo-Skylax:

Image
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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