"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#976

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:26 pm

Arban bArbArian wrote:mirpo duhet te kuptojm qe greeket (danoi) kan pas propagand , tash sipas historis dardanet me siguri edhe shum Arcad me ta plus Pelestet (Palestin) shkojn ne levant mesopotami edhe lënë toponime ne ato anë p.sh Ar Kir Dibon etj https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kir_of_Moab
plus emri Akkadia dmth A ka di , tash ne gjuhen Arabe e gjeta nje fjal qe e kemi ndegju te gjith fjala eshte Kadi qe dmth gjukates per te qen gjukates duhet te kesh Dije Ka-DI per mu eshte shqip , per kete arsye medoj qe emri Ar-ka-di duhet te jet ne kuptimin Ka-DI-Turi Ari , nje tjete fjal qe me shtyen te mendoj keshtu eshte fjala Dinar qe esht perdorur nga shum popuj mirpo gjithmon aty ku ka pas shqiptar Di-në-Ar , nese ke dituri ta kthesh arin ne monedh ke bë pun te madhe , e kemi lan shum anash historin e dardanve edhe ardianve ne mesopotami
Nuk mendoj se duhet, te perziejme ne keto gjetje, kombe dhe legjenda te mevonshme. Keto legjenda per Arkadine, jane shume me te hershme, se vete legjendat per danajte, pa folur per arabet. Arcadianet ishin pellazge, dhe u quajten te tille, nga vete mbreti i tyre dhe i paraprijne ne kohe shume historive te tjera.
μετὰ δὲ Νύκτιμον ἀποθανόντα Ἀρκὰς ἐξεδέξατο ὁ Καλλιστοῦς τὴν ἀρχήν: καὶ τόν τε ἥμερον καρπὸν ἐσηγάγετο οὗτος παρὰ Τριπτολέμου καὶ τὴν ποίησιν ἐδίδαξε τοῦ ἄρτου καὶ ἐσθῆτα ὑφαίνεσθαι καὶ ἄλλα, τὰ ἐς ταλασίαν μαθὼν παρὰ Δρίστα. ἀπὸ τούτου δὲ βασιλεύσαντος Ἀρκαδία τε ἀντὶ Πελασγίας ἡ χώρα καὶ ἀντὶ Πελασγῶν Ἀρκάδες ἐκλήθησαν οἱ ἄνθρωποι.After the death of Nyctimus, Arcas the son of Callisto came to the throne. He introduced the cultivation of crops, which he learned from Triptolemus, and taught men to make bread, to weave clothes, and other things besides, having learned the art of spinning from Adristas. [background=yellow]After this king the land was called Arcadia instead of Pelasgia and its inhabitants Arcadians instead of Pelasgians.[/background]
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#977

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Arban bArbArian wrote:nese deshironi te ju behet zemra MAL shiqone ketet film qe e permenda ma heret , per dardanet ne assyri
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x29556 ... shortfilms
Falemnderit Arban, por une nuk e vleresoj shume 'historine', qe vjen prej artit te Hollivud. Pervecse e konsideroj thjesht nje stisje artistike, ky lloj arti i sherben vetem kauzes per trushplarje, te liges judeo-kristiane.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#978

Post by Arban bArbArian » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:31 pm

po edhe un jam i mendimit tuaj per hollivudi , por ky film eshte italian , edhe nje film tjeter italian qe e kam pa kur isha i ri mka pelqy shum , ishte per trojen vetumse ne at film dardanet vijn dhe e shpetojn trojen nersa ne filmin e hollivudit nuk ka dardan , po nejse nuk ka rendsi kjo
ti kthehemi prap temes , se pari kerkoj ndjes nese dola pak prej temes Epiri... por sinqerisht mendoj qe emri i yn ka qen gjith Ar , emrat e tjer i sherbejn kauzes 'perqaj e sundo' se pari emri Pelasg per ti ndar njerzit prej grupit tmadh Arb ,edhe Ilir , qysh ka mundesi qe ne kohen e ilirve te ket Arbon Ardi dhe prap te quhen ilir plus propaganda qe iliri paska pas prejardhje semite nga fenikasit 'Cadamus' pastaj sipas Niko Stilo Tali ishte vlla i Arit Ital = vendi I-Talit ,vijn romaket vetem e kthejn mbrapsht Ital Lati-n dhe assimilojn me miliona , e njejta metod eshte perdorur ndaj nesh ne fund te Osmanlive Turk=musliman Grek=ortodox jug edhe Sllav=ortodox veri+lindje , krejt keta popuj jan formuar me asimilimin e shqiptarve
a mujm me definu emrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgus# ... Suppliants karba karbanoi bArbAr barbar pse edhe qysh greket te cilet me te njejten goj na quajten Pelasg Ilir etj me po at goj na quajten barbar kuptohet pa b ose k Arbar=Arbër

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#979

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:42 pm

Arban bArbArian wrote:vijn romaket vetem e kthejn mbrapsht Ital Lati-n dhe assimilojn me miliona
Nuk me kishte shkuar mendja tek kjo, megjithate nuk ka dyshim qe italishtja eshte nje idiome e lindur nga perpjekja per te folur ne gjuhen e elites, ate latinishte.
a mujm me definu emrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgus# ... Suppliants karba karbanoi bArbAr barbar pse edhe qysh greket te cilet me te njejten goj na quajten Pelasg Ilir etj me po at goj na quajten barbar kuptohet pa b ose k Arbar=Arbër
Barbarians quhej gjithe popullata johelene, por ky grup i madh individesh, sipas mendimit tim, dallohej nga helenet, nga religjioni, qe me pas i diferencoi dhe ne gjuhe, kulture dhe tradita.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#980

Post by Arban bArbArian » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:18 pm

po po definicionin zyrtar per barbar pe kuptoj ama jam i bindur qe ne ate kohe nuk e ka pas ate kuptin por kuptimi ka qen Arban=prej arit
ndersa per latin kisha pas edhe diqka me than ndoshta mundeni mem ndihmu sepse periudhat kohore nuk i di mir sepse nuk jam specialist , por sa po mundem me kuptu un , se pari vijn grekt prej egiptit dhe fillojm me dinakrin e tyre perqaj sundo , ndoshta lufta e trojes eshte pasoj e tyre , pastaj ne hakmarrje vijn Dorianet dhe i shpartallojn , prej at'her greket ikin ne Italin e jugut qe me pas merr emrin 'magna graecia' , me pas fillojn te pushtojn fise te vogla Arberore , derisa e pushtojn edhe romen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albani_people gjithmon duke i pervetsu njerzit ton per qellimet/identitetin e tyre , Pirro i Epirit e sheh qfar po ndodh provon ti ndal por disi si von , dhe me njerzit ton e pushtojn qerdhen e Arit njerzit e lir , ja disa nga fytyrat e tyre jo Ariane https://youtu.be/4D-S5Z1cV1s

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#981

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:19 pm

Merkur Bua, fisniku shqiptar(1478-1542), sunduesi i Morese(Peloponezit), pas vdekjes ne monumentin kushtuar atij ne vitin 1562, ne Trevizo Santa Maria Maggiore, u shtua mbishkrimi(viti 1637):

"Mercurio Bua Comiti E. Principibus Peloponnesi
Epirotarum Equitum Ductori,
Anno Salu. MDCXXXVII."

Shqip:
Dedikuar Kontit Merkur Bua, Princ i Peloponnesit,
udheheqes i kaloresve epiriotë(stradiotet-shen. im), ruajtur ne vitin 1637
English:
"To Count Mercurio Bua, Prince of Peloponnesus,
Leader of the Epirote Horsemen, Year of our Salvation, 1637".
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#982

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:02 pm

Postim me vlere ky! Kjo do te thote qe shqiptaret e zbritur ne More e ruanin te thelle identifikimin e tyre me Epirin, ku fisi i Buave banonte malesite midis Janines e Pindit. Zeus cka mendon per pretendimin e ngritur nga disa historiane fqinje, sipas te cileve:
  Οι Μπουαίοι κατάγονταν από τη Σκόδρα (ποταμός Μπουγιάνα, ο αρχαίος Barbana)  
A mund te kete ndonje copez te se vertetes ky hamendesim? Mua me duket, sikur ban perpjekje me i hap udhe idese se lajthitun se gjithcka shqiptare ne Epir lidhet me shtegtimet e arberoreve nga veriu (teoria e Hammondit)....
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#983

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:16 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Postim me vlere ky! Kjo do te thote qe shqiptaret e zbritur ne More e ruanin te thelle identifikimin e tyre me Epirin, ku fisi i Buave banonte malesite midis Janines e Pindit. Zeus cka mendon per pretendimin e ngritur nga disa historiane fqinje, sipas te cileve:
  Οι Μπουαίοι κατάγονταν από τη Σκόδρα (ποταμός Μπουγιάνα, ο αρχαίος Barbana)  
A mund te kete ndonje copez te se vertetes ky hamendesim? Mua me duket, sikur ban perpjekje me i hap udhe idese se lajthitun se gjithcka shqiptare ne Epir lidhet me shtegtimet e arberoreve nga veriu (teoria e Hammondit)....
Edhe nese ka ndodhur ndonje shtegtim i shqiptareve nga Veriu, vala e pare e tij ka ndodhur qe ne prehistori. Sunduesit shqiptare, kane origjina te ndryshme pervec asaj autoktones, psh Gjon Muzaki, e gjen origjinen e vet ne Konstandinopoje, por ajo qe i lidh ata me Arberine, ajo qe i ben ata Epirote, eshte dicka e fuqishme me shume se feja. Une mendoj qe ajo eshte prejardhja historike-etnike. Psh Merkur Bua, ishte shume krenar per prejardhjen e tij nga Akili, dhe Pirroja, bile poeti Tzanes Koronaios, qe shkruajti poemen per te, thoshte qe ai zoteronte armen origjinale te perdorur nga Pirroja vete per te cilen ishte shume krenar:
του Πυρρού, εις ον άνηγον την άρχην ο Μποϋαι.


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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#984

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:42 pm

Shiko sa interesante eshte pershkrimi i Tzani Koronas(shek 16) per origjinen e shqiptarit Merkur Bua:

Ne faqen 4 deshmohet per origjinen dhe vendin e zoteruar prej tyre.

Kαί τήν πατρίδα μαρτυρουν και ολον του το γενος,
και αλλοι που δεν τον ξερουσιν λέγουσι οτι εινε ξενος
Εκ του ρέ Πύρου τον καιρόν , και Αντίνου του (η)Πειρωτα,
Αυτουν ησαν καθολικά η ριζα των Πουγιανων
Και δια να σωβρω την αρχην ταχ΄αποκει το πιανω,
Κ ησασι κατοικούμενοι εις την Μακεδονίαν,
Αρταν και Αγγελόκαστρον, Γιάννινα και Αλβανίαν.
Και ενας Μπουας ηκουεν ονομα μισερ Πέτρος

Dhe atdheu dhe gjithe ky rrefim per racen e tij
dhe te tjeret qe nuk e dinin dhe qe mendonin qe ai ishte nje i huaj
qe nga koha e mbretit Pirro dhe epirotit Antino
Te atyre qe kishin rrenje Pugiane(pellazge??)
Dhe si per te gjetur zanafillen prej nga kam ardhur
Kane banuar Maqedonine
Arten dhe Angjelokastren, Janinen dhe Shqiperine
Dhe Buat jane therritur Petro-s
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#985

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:12 pm

De Albanensium Italiæ ritibus excolendis ut sibi totique S. Ecclesiæ prosint
GIORGIO GUZZETTA
1742
perkthimi ne italisht nga latinishtja:

«L'idioma Epirotìco ossia Albanese è totalmente differente, non solo dal Greco,
ma ancora da tutti li altri linguaggi, che sono in Europa e nelle altre parti del
Mondo talmente che non si avrebbe difficoltà a dire la lingua Albanese lingua
Madre, ed indipendente da tutte le altre a noi note, se due personaggi dotti ed
eruditi oggi viventi non sostenessero in due separate dissertacioni su tal particolare, i popoli dell'Albania esser Colonie delli Antichi Albani del Lazio, e la lingua Albanese derivata dalla Latina».

E folura epirotisht, duke qene shqip, eshte totalisht e ndryshme, jo vetem nga greqishtja, por akoma nga te gjitha gjuhet e tjera, qe fliten ne Europe dhe ne te gjitha pjeset e botes, keshtu qe nuk do te ishte e veshtire te thuhej se gjuha meme e shqipes, eshte e pavarur nga te gjitha ato te njohura nga ne, nese dy dijetare te shquar ne dy studime te vecanta, nuk do mbanin qendrimin qe populli I Shqiperise, eshte pasardhes i kolonise se Albaneve te lashte dhe gjuha shqipe eshte e prejardhur nga latinishtja.
Ne te njejtin liber autori shprehet:

«gli Italo-albanesi di casa nostra si intendono perfettamente con gli Epiroti e con i Macedoni»

Our home Italo-Albanians are perfectly intelligible to the Epirotians and Macedonians
Italo-arberoret e Italise kuptohen shkelqyeshem me Epirotet dhe Maqedonet
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#986

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:25 am

Image

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#987

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:44 pm

Ku ne shek. XVI njihej si Krahina e Camerise ne arkivat dhe hartat veneciane.

Title
The castle of Margariti under Venetian siege (1571).
Alternative Title
Fortezza di Margaritin nella provincia della Cimera.
Date
[c. 1574]
Bibliographic Citation
CAMOCIO, Giovanni Francesco. Isole famose porti, fortezze, e terre maritime sottoposte alla Ser.ma Sig.ria di Venetia, ad altri Principi Christiani, et al Sig.or Turco, novamente poste in luce, Venice, alla libraria del segno di S.Marco, [ca. 1574].

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Per mendimin tim ka rendesi te veçante si toponim, pikerisht sepse edhe venecianet e shek. XVI e njihnin si Krahina e Camerise dhe ekziston edhe nje harte tjeter ku sillet ne trajten "Cimeria" (pra nuk ka lidhje me krahinen e Himares) dhe si toponim permendet edhe prej autoreve te lashte sikurse ishte Pauzania.

Image

"Chimerium" ne Thesproti permendet prej Pauzania ne ate qe njihet si vepra "Pershkrimi i Greqise", Lib.VIII, rreshti 7. Tani, si e ruajten shqiptaret e Camerise kete toponim te kohes se Pauzania (shek. II m.Kr.) dhe "greket" jo vetem e harruan, por me teper shekullin e shkuar ia ndryshuan emrin, eshte çeshtje me vete. Ne se Pauzania beri nje "pseudo-pershkrim" te ketij toponimi, atehere duhet te kete bere pseudo-pershkrime edhe per vende te tjera, pra, ne se gaboi ne pershkrimet e veta per "Chimerium", atehere perse duhet ta marrim si te mireqene per ate çka solli ne kete veper? ("No, due pesi e due misure",- thone Taljanet per çeshtje te tilla). Ne se shqipot "pushtuan" Thesprotine ngelet "enigme" si trasheguan keto toponime.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#988

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:30 pm

Te gjitha dokumentet ne gjuhen latine qe flasin per Epirin, si libra, fjalore e harta, e shpallin ate te njevlefshem me Albanine:

Image

Natyrisht kjo gje mbeti e pandryshuar kur gjuha angleze, fitoi dominance ne letersine Europiane.


Charles Pye - 1803
A NEW - DICTIONARY ANCIENT GEOGRAPHY, EXHIBITING THE MODERN IN ADDITION TO THE ANCIENT NAMES OF PLACES.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Q7pfAA ... &q&f=false

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#989

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:43 pm

The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science, and Art, Volume 58
e vitit 1863, faqe 379
pra kur shteti grek, nuk ishte stabilizuar akoma ne kufijte e vete te sotem dhe po kerkonte zgjerimin, sidomos ne veri, jep nje tablo realiste te gjendjes dhe zhvillimeve etniko-politike ne Greqi dhe territoreve, qe akoma nuk ishin perfshire brenda saj.

As regards Epirus there was another reason, perhaps, that nearly the whole of its population is now Albanian; but in Thessaly, from Mount Pindus to Mount Pelion, and from Thermopylae to Mount Olympus, the land is singularly free from Albanian intermixture. In the Greek kingdom, therefore, we have to deal with the territory to the south of the line drawn from the Gulf of Volo to the Gulf of Arta; that is, with ancient Greece, exclusive of Epirus and Thessaly

At the same time this fusion of the Greek and Albanian populations has its distinct limits, which are those of the Greek kingdom itself. It does not appear that Albanians beyond the frontier were to have any share, like the Greeks beyond the frontier, in the election of a king. So far the national or Hellenic principle ap to survive. On the other hand, we believe that if the revolutionary Greek party were to triumph at Athens, and they should succeed in driving the Greek frontier further north, so as to include the Thessaly and Epirus of classical history, the Epirots, who as we have seen are Albanians, would be as readily accounted Greek citizens as the Thessalians, who are Hellenists. And no doubt, if that grande idée were ever to be realized which would sweep away the Turkish empire and establish a Greek empire, in its place Greeks and Albanians would be admitted into it on nominally equal terms.

Me poshte e njejta reviste, konfirmon, qe qendrat me te famshme te te ashtequajtures "Greqi e Lashte", banohen vetem nga shqiptaret, qe kane ruajtur gjuhen dhe zakonet e tyre, ne nje mase te konsiderueshme:

We will assume that the Greek consists approximately of Greeks in proportion of three fourths, and of in the proportion of one fourth. But it is a singular fact that these Albanians have ousted the Greeks from most celebrated states in all periods antiquity. They hold the Isthmus of Corinth, and the country for a considerable distance on either side of it, thus the Hellenic blood both from Argolis of the Homeric age, and from Attica of the historical age. Thus Boeotia the southern part of Euboea, Corinth, Megaris, Argolis and Sicyonia are entirely inhabited by a people of Albanian origin, and who still preserve vital traditions of that origin by wearing an Albanian dress and speaking the language.

Ajo qe revista hamendeson, eshte qe presupozohet se shqiptaret kane zene vendin e heleneve te lashte ne keto vende, pa konsideruar nje mundesi tjeter, qe shqiptaret ne keto rajone te famshme, mund te jene vete ata: "helenet e lashte".
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#990

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:26 pm

Ne te vertet, Zeus10, me gjithe informacionet (e bollshme) qe ekzistojne, na kontestohet fakti qe shqiptaret mesjetar shkuan ne Epir apo edhe me gjere ne Greqine Kontinentale si popull i cili "mbushi nje boshllek" (te heleneve te lashte), pra emigrime. Kjo edhe mund te kete ndodhur (perhere sipas historigrafise dhe dokumenteve) por, perhere sipas historigrafise, ky popull (shqiptaret mesjetar) neper keto tekste na paraqitet si popull endacak (nomad), apo quajtur ndryshe baritor.
Pyetja me llogjike ne kete rast do ishte: Ne se keta shqiptar mesjetar, te cilet kishin si profesion nomadizmin (apo baritor), u ftuan prej Perandoreve Bizantine ne territoret e Greqise Kontinentale per te mbushur nje boshllek popullsie, si ka mundesi qe u dhane toka dhe ky popull u kthye ne nje popull rural? Dime fare mire qe popujt baritor eshte shume e veshtire ti kthejme ne popuj rural dhe anasjelltas. Nuk mund te marresh nje familje qe si zanat ka pikerisht te merret me bagetite dhe ta shtrosh te punoje toka apo leroje ara dhe te merret me fruta e perime?
Apo gabohem?
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