"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#991

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:39 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Ne te vertet, Zeus10, me gjithe informacionet (e bollshme) qe ekzistojne, na kontestohet fakti qe shqiptaret mesjetar shkuan ne Epir apo edhe me gjere ne Greqine Kontinentale si popull i cili "mbushi nje boshllek" (te heleneve te lashte), pra emigrime. Kjo edhe mund te kete ndodhur (perhere sipas historigrafise dhe dokumenteve) por, perhere sipas historigrafise, ky popull (shqiptaret mesjetar) neper keto tekste na paraqitet si popull endacak (nomad), apo quajtur ndryshe baritor.
Pyetja me llogjike ne kete rast do ishte: Ne se keta shqiptar mesjetar, te cilet kishin si profesion nomadizmin (apo baritor), u ftuan prej Perandoreve Bizantine ne territoret e Greqise Kontinentale per te mbushur nje boshllek popullsie, si ka mundesi qe u dhane toka dhe ky popull u kthye ne nje popull rural? Dime fare mire qe popujt baritor eshte shume e veshtire ti kthejme ne popuj rural dhe anasjelltas. Nuk mund te marresh nje familje qe si zanat ka pikerisht te merret me bagetite dhe ta shtrosh te punoje toka apo leroje ara dhe te merret me fruta e perime?
Apo gabohem?
Jo, nuk gabohesh aspak Mallakastrioti. Kjo eshte nje pyetje, qe duhet ti pergjigjen ata, qe mbrojne tezen, qe prezenca shqiptare ne Greqi, na qenka si rezultat i shpernguljeve masive(me kuç e me maç), gjate shek. 13-14-15, te shqiptareve ne zonat e pabanuara te Greqise. Partizanet e kesaj teze duhet ti pergjgjen nje seri pyetjesh te tjera, si keto me poshte:

1. A gjeten bashkekombas te tyre, shqiptaret kur shkuan ne Greqi, apo ata ishin shqiptaret e pare, qe shkelen ne token helene?
2. Ku shkuan vete helenet, si banoret """""origjinale"""" te Hellades?
3. Pse nuk gjenden keta helene, ne zonat rurale, si indigjenet e vendit, por jane gjithmone, mes klerit, tregetareve dhe roleve administrative?
4. Cilat zona te Shqiperise, keta shqiptare nomade, zbrazen para se te popullonin Helladen, ne nje mase te konsiderueshme?

mesa kuptoj une, kombi shqiptar ne shekullin e 13-14-15, kur pretendohet qe kane ndodhur keto shperngulje, sipas fuqise zyrtare te kohes, otomaneve, zgjatet natyrshem deri ne skaj te Morese, kurse kombi Helen, nje Zot e di ku eshte:

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Bile dhe para saj, ajo qe me vone do quhej Rumeli, duket sikur eshte Latinet e Lindjes, qe per qytetar kane Romi-n, me fjale te tjera grekun.

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Por keta romioi, nuk jane askerkund, heleni indigjen, qe do te gjeneronte ca shekuj me vone kombin grek. Pra, ka nje shkeputje totale historike, midis grekut modern dhe helenit te lashte(qe per hir te se vertetes, nuk jemi te sigurte se ka egzistuar ndonjehere). Kurse per shqiptarin, per sa kohe mund te deshmohet, ai eshte banor i Epirit ose ndryshe Albanise, por edhe Atikes, Beotise, Korinthit dhe gjithe Morese.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#992

Post by Mallakastrioti » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:17 am

Meqenese fqinjet tane jugor shume here na shperfillin dhe na vene epitete (ofenduese) si per shembull "turko-shqiptar", ne te vertet dokumentat arkivore flasin ndryshe, pikerisht sepse ne mesjete ishin territoret greke apo greket (romei) ata qe njiheshin si "turko-greke" apo territori ku banonin si "Turko-Greqia". Diçka te tille nuk e shpiken shqiptaret, perkundrazi, eshte vet nje prift, historian dhe frati Benediktin gjerman Pius Bonifacius Gams i cili ne vepren e tij me titull "Series episcoporum ecclesiae catholicae..", viti 1873, ff. 391-395, jo vetem si Greqi njeh vetem ishullin e Zantes, Korfuzit dhe Qefalonise, por me teper, me Shqiperi njeh zonat qe prej kufijve jugor te Dalmacise e deri ne ate qe njihej apo cilesohej si Epir. Kishat katolike apo qendrat peshkopale katolike kane zanafillat qe nga mesi i shek. 12 ne ato qe njiheshin si territoret "Albanenses" apo "Arbanenses"

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#993

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:23 pm

Prurje shume e mire kjo Mallakastrioti, meriton nje vend dhe koment ne albumin tone:

http://photos.arberiaonline.com/Gallery ... oto&ci=008
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#994

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:16 am

Ne vitin 1572 turqit kerkojne te pushtojne keshtjellen e Margelliçit (Margaritit) e cila gjendet ne Cameri, por nuk arrijne ne kete tentative. Nje vit me vone sulmojne keshtjellen e Sopotit dhe e mbajne per nje vit, pikerisht sepse shqiptaret arrijne ta rimarrin keshtjellen e Sopotit prej turqve dhe ua ridorezojne Venedikasve. Ky dokument ka rendesi pasi ne ato qe njihen si "Annales Turcici = Permbledhje historike Turke", publikuar keto prej historianit mesjetar gjerman Johannes Leunclavius, sillet nje element interesant ne kete veper, pikerisht toponimi Cameri. Autori nder te tjera shkruan: " Veneti Margaritinum, in Chimeritorum regione, quae Albaniae pars est=Margelliçi Venedikas, ne krahinen e Camerise, e cili eshte pjese e Shqiperise". Ky dokument perforecon me teper tezen qe emri apo toponimi i Camerise gjendet jo vetem ne disa harta mesjetare (kryesisht Venedikase/Veneciane), por sillet edhe ne veprat e disa prej eruditeve te kohes sikurse ishte Leunclavius.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#995

Post by bardus » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:59 pm


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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#996

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:27 pm

Mesa duket kristianet(venecianet) dhe shqiptaret, po mbrojne Keshtjellen e Sopotit ne Himare(sipas pershkrimit 40 milje larg Korfuzit)

Fortezza di Soppoto. Havendo il Clmo. Sebastian Veniero proveditore gnale di Corfu con el Clmo. Giacomo Celsi, proveditore gñale de l'armata venetiana negociato con li populi di la Cimera / per ridur li a la devotion de la Serma. sigra et havendosi lasciato intender gli haveziano obedito quando essi sigri Chmi.

nga turqit dhe nje ushtri me 1000 shqiptare(populi di la Cimera), do te bllokoje turqit nese terhiqen, ne ate drejtim sic paraqitet ne figure:

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#997

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:40 pm

Ne te vertet, Zeus10, sipas ketij kartografi francez kjo keshtjelle rimerret prej venedikasve dhe ata turq qe moren arratine u masakruan dhe u kapen prej shqiptareve (te cilet ishin 1000 luftetare nen komanden e Manol Marmorit.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#998

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:07 pm

Sathas per metimet e shqiptareve mesjetare per Maqedonine:
Γεώργιος Καστριώτης ὁ περιλάλητος τῆν Ἀλβανίας ἡγεμών, γράφων προς τον πρίγχητα τοῦ Τάραντος λέγει "οί ἡμέτεροι πρόγονοι ἠσαν οἱ Ηπειρῶται ἐκεῖνοι, ἐξ ών ἀνέθαλλεν ὁ Πύρρος, είς τοῦ ὁποίου την ὁρμην πόλις ἐδυνήθησαν ν´ ἀντιστῶσιν οί Ρωμαῖοι, ἐκεῖνος, οστις ἐκυρίευσε δια τῶν οπλων τον Τάραντα μετ' άλλων χορῶν τῆς Ιταλίας... Η Ἀλβανια μέρος ἀποτελοῦσα τῆς Μακεδονίας σεμνύνεται δια τους εύγενεῖς προπάτοράς της, οίτινες ύπο τον Μέγαν Αλεξανδρον εισεχώρησαν μέχρι τῶν Ινδιῶν. Εξ ἐκείνων κατάγονται οί σημερινοι Ἀλβανοι".
Te njejten e thote edhe per Merkur Buan, sidomos per poemen e Koronios-it qe nje faqe me heret e ka postue Zeusi:
Οί Μποῦαι, περι ων κατωτέρω, οὐ μόνον, ως γράφει ό Κορωναῖος, εσεμνύνοντο ἐπι τῆ ἐκ Πύρρου και Αντίνου καταγωγῆ, ἀλλα και μεταξύ τῶν οικοσήμων παραϝεβαλλον και το τοῦ Πύρρου, ώς κατ' ευθείαν ἀπόγονοι τοῦ Βασιλέως τῶν Ηπειρωτῶν. Ο Κορωναῖος γράφας το δημοσιευόμενον ποίημα, επι τη Βασει τῶν πληροφοριῶν και τῶν ἐγγράφων τοῦ υμνουμένου Μερκουρίου, πολλαχοῦ διατρανοῖ το ἑλληνικον τῆς καταγωγῆς τοῦ μεγαθύμου τούτου Ηπειρώτου. Ἐν ἀρχῆ λέγει τα ἑξῆς
Per me teper ndiq vegezen:

https://books.google.com/books?id=poxBA ... &q&f=false
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#999

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:25 pm

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Greket modern mund te mohojne toponimin Cameria (duke e ndryshuar dhe thjeshtezuar ne Thesproti), por u duhet te mohojne edhe Tuqiditin (Hist. Libri I, Kap.XXX) i cili rrefen per "Cimerio/Cimeria ne Thesproti", e cila nuk ka lidhje aspak me Himaren (qe gjendej ne Kaonine e lashte), pikerisht sepse; Acio dhe Cimeria ishin ne pjesen jugore te Epirit te lashte dhe qendra te rendesishme te Thesprotise.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1000

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:46 pm

Jo vetem Thuqiditi ne kapitullin e cituar prej jush:
τοῦ τε χρόνου τὸν πλεῖστον μετὰ τὴν ναυμαχίαν ἐπεκράτουν τῆς θαλάσσης καὶ τοὺς τῶν Κορινθίων ξυμμάχους ἐπιπλέοντες ἔφθειρον, μέχρι οὗ Κορίνθιοι περιιόντι τῷ θέρει πέμψαντες ναῦς καὶ στρατιάν, ἐπεὶ σφῶν οἱ ξύμμαχοι ἐπόνουν, ἐστρατοπεδεύοντο ἐπὶ Ἀκτίῳ καὶ περὶ τὸ [background=yellow]Χειμέριον τῆς Θεσπρωτίδος[/background] φυλακῆς ἕνεκα τῆς τε Λευκάδος καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πόλεων ὅσαι σφίσι φίλιαι ἦσαν.For almost the whole of the period that followed the battle they remained masters of the sea, and the allies of Corinth were harassed by Corcyraean cruisers. At last Corinth, roused by the sufferings of her allies, sent out ships and troops in the fall of the summer, who formed an encampment at Actium and about [background=yellow]Chimerium, in Thesprotis[/background], for the protection of Leucas and the rest of the friendly cities.
por Cimeria permended dhe nga Pausani ne librin 8.7.2
ἀφανισθὲν δὲ ἐνταῦθα ἄνεισι κατὰ τὴν Δίνην: ἔστι δὲ ἡ Δίνη κατὰ τὸ Γενέθλιον καλούμενον τῆς Ἀργολίδος, ὕδωρ γλυκὺ ἐκ θαλάσσης ἀνερχόμενον. τὸ δὲ ἀρχαῖον καὶ καθίεσαν ἐς τὴν Δίνην τῷ Ποσειδῶνι ἵππους οἱ Ἀργεῖοι κεκοσμημένους χαλινοῖς. γλυκὺ δὲ ὕδωρ ἐν θαλάσσῃ δῆλόν ἐστιν ἐνταῦθά τε ἀνιὸν ἐν τῇ Ἀργολίδι καὶ ἐν τῇ [background=yellow]Θεσπρωτίδι κατὰ τὸ Χειμέριον[/background] καλούμενονAfter disappearing here it rises again at Dine (Whirlpool). Dine is a stream of fresh water rising out of the sea by what is called Genethlium in Argolis. In olden times the Argives cast horses adorned with bridles down into Dine as an offering to Poseidon. Not only here in Argolis, but also by [b][background=yellow]Cheimerium in Thesprotis[/background][/b], is there unmistakably fresh water rising up in the sea.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1001

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:20 pm

Zarë - Zadrë në Dalmaci (Kroaci)

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Kur Epiri identifikohej me Albania. Ketu jemi ne shek. XVIII (1792, foto siper), por ne raste te tjera, binomi "Dalmatiae et Epiri", kryesisht sillej edhe "Dalmatiae et Albania" duke nisur qe prej shek. XVI (si ne monedhen ne kete rast qe i perket pikerisht shek. XVI:

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1002

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:02 pm

Ne nje studim te autorit grek Nikos D. Karabelas (President i "Actia Nicopolis Foundation" ne Preveze), me titullin "THE OTTOMAN CONQUEST OF PREVEZA AND ITS FIRST CASTLE", paraqitur ne Kongresin XVI te Historise Turke (XVI. TÜRK TARİH KONGRESİ) ne Ankara, ne Seksionin IV lidhur Historise dhe dokumentave Osmane (SEKSİYON IV OSMANLI TARİHİ) nder te tjera autori sjell kete fakt interesant lidhur toponimit "Preveze/a":
"...Fjala "udhe" ne gjuhen Shqipe eshte "prevëzë" ose "prevëza". Kjo eshte çka Preveza do te thote, udhe, dhe eshte ne kete vend ku qyteti i Prevezes qendron sot."
Karabelas per etimologjine e ketij toponimi, pra Preveze, mbeshtetet ne nje studim te gjuhetarit P. Fourikis i cili ishte i pari qe dalloi kete fjale shqipe, publikuar ne nje veper te tij te vitit 1924.
Ne te vertet kete fjale (krahinore), ne se do shfletonim Fjalorin e Gjuhes Shqipe, e ndeshim ne kete forme:

" PREVË II f. krahin.
1. Udhë shumë e rrahur; xhade; vend kalimi. E kishte shtëpinë në prevë e kishte shtëpinë buzë udhës, në vend të dukshëm. "

Toponimi apo emri i ketij qyteti (Preveze) ekzistonte te pakten qe ne vitin 1463 sipas dokumentave Osmane dhe pikerisht kur sillen ngjarjet e pushtimit si te Prevezes ashtu edhe keshtjelles se pare te saj ( Özet Osmanlı’nın Preveze Fethi ve İlk Kalesi).

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1003

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:45 pm

Ne librin
Dittionario Volgare Et Latino
Con Le Sve Avtorita Della Lingva Page 32/2
e vitit
1568
kur jepet pershkrimi per Albania thuhet:

Terra Chaonis i Sinonimi del Rauisio alla voce Epyrus. Leggi Albania nella breue descrittione del mondo del ben dotto ZACCHERIA LILIO Vicentino

Pra, toka e Chaoneve qe eshte sinonimi i Epyrus. Por ajo qe eshte me e rendesishme, jo vetem toka e Albanise eshte sinonimi i Epirit, por dhe banoret e saj quhen ne menyre te nderkembyeshme Epirote ose Albaneze:

L altra la Schiauonia & la Macedonia altro nome latino dicesi questa cioe che e fra la Schiavonia e la Macedonia suoi popoli latino si chiamano Epirotae



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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1004

Post by IllyrianLegend » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:37 pm

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#1005

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:46 am

Shume harte e mire Illyrianlegend. Falemnderit per prurjen. Harta eshte e vitit 1861 dhe eshte botimi i dyte. Po e sjell pak me te plote.

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