"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

Moderators: Arbëri, Strokulli

Post Reply
User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4203
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#16

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:06 pm

Qenjen "barbare" te epiroteve na e konfirmon dhe Straboni ne librin e tij te 7-te:

Strabo- Book 7.7.1
Ἑκαταῖος μὲν οὖν ὁ Μιλήσιος περὶ τῆς Πελοποννήσου φησὶν διότι πρὸ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ᾤκησαν αὐτὴν βάρβαροι. σχεδὸν δέ τι καὶ ἡ σύμπασα Ἑλλὰς κατοικία βαρβάρων ὑπῆρξε τὸ παλαιόν, ἀπ' αὐτῶν λογιζομένοις τῶν μνημονευομένων, Πέλοπος μὲν ἐκ τῆς Φρυγίας ἐπαγαγομένου λαοὺς εἰς τὴν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ κληθεῖσαν Πελοπόννησον, Δαναοῦ δὲ ἐξ Αἰγύπτου, Δρυόπων τε καὶ Καυκώνων καὶ Πελασγῶν καὶ Λελέγων καὶ ἄλλων τοιούτων κατανειμαμένων τὰ ἐντὸς Ἰσθμοῦ καὶ τὰ ἐκτὸς δέ· τὴν μὲν γὰρ Ἀττικὴν οἱ μετὰ Εὐμόλπου Θρᾷκες ἔσχον, τῆς δὲ Φωκίδος τὴν Δαυλίδα Τηρεύς, τὴν δὲ Καδμείαν οἱ μετὰ Κάδμου Φοίνικες, αὐτὴν δὲ τὴν Βοιωτίαν Ἄονες καὶ Τέμμικες καὶ Ὕαντες· ὡς δὲ Πίνδαρός φησιν, ἦν ὅτε σύας Βοιώτιον ἔθνος ἔνεπον. καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ὀνομάτων δὲ ἐνίων τὸ βάρβαρον ἐμφαίνεται, Κέκροψ καὶ Κόδρος καὶ Ἄικλος καὶ Κόθος καὶ Δρύμας καὶ Κρίνακος. οἱ δὲ Θρᾷκες καὶ Ἰλλυριοὶ καὶ Ἠπειρῶται καὶ μέχρι νῦν ἐν πλευραῖς εἰσιν· ἔτι μέντοι μᾶλλον πρότερον ἢ νῦν, ὅπου γε καὶ τῆς ἐν τῷ παρόντι Ἑλλάδος ἀναντιλέκτως οὔσης τὴν πολλὴν οἱ βάρβαροι ἔχουσι, Μακεδονίαν μὲν Θρᾷκες καί τινα μέρη τῆς Θετταλίας, Ἀκαρνανίας δὲ καὶ Αἰτωλίας τἆ ἄνω Θεσπρωτοὶ καὶ Κασσωπαῖοι καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ Μολοττοὶ καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες, Ἠπειρωτικὰ ἔθνη.Now Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians, if one reasons from the traditions themselves: Pelops {395} brought over peoples {396} from Phrygia to the Peloponnesus that received its name from him; and Danaüs {397} from Egypt; whereas the Dryopes, the Caucones, the Pelasgi, the Leleges, and other such peoples, apportioned among themselves the parts that are inside the isthmus--and also the parts outside, for Attica was once held by the Thracians who came with Eumolpus, {398} Daulis in Phocis by Tereus, {399} Cadmeia {400} by the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and Boeotia itself by the Aones and Temmices and Hyantes. According to Pindar, “there was a time when the Boeotian tribe was called “Syes.” {401} {402} Moreover, the barbarian origin of some is indicated by their names--Cecrops, Godrus, Aïclus, Cothus, Drymas, and Crinacus. And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the Thracians, and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei, the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4203
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#17

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:19 pm

Etnikisht kjo race(epirotet) nuk kane qene te ndryshem nga ata qe i rrethonin Ilire, Greke, thrakas, Maqedonas por mesa duket afersine me te madhe e kane pasur me keta te fundit. Bile dhe thesalasit qe rendom quhen "helene" ishin nje dege e vecante e epirotve thesprote:

Strabo book 9.443
In reality and as Herodotus also affirms, Thessalians were a branch of Thesprotians thus Thessalians and Epirotans were kinsmen.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4203
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#18

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:23 pm

Konfirmimin me te mire qe Maqedonasit dhe Epirotet ishin e njejta race na e jep Straboni ne librin e tij por dhe te Ilireve te Jugut:
Strabo 007.007.008
Ἠπειρῶται δ' εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ' αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου· τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ Βρῦγοι· πλησίον δέ που καὶ τὰ ἀργυρεῖα τὰ ἐν Δαμαστίῳ, περὶ ἃ Δυέσται συνεστήσαντο τὴν δυναστείαν καὶ Ἐγχέλειοι, οὓς καὶ Σεσαρηθίους καλοῦσι· πρὸς δὲ τούτοις Λυγκῆσταί τε καὶ ἡ Δευρίοπος καὶ ἡ τρίπολις Πελαγονία καὶ Ἐορδοὶ καὶ Ἐλίμεια καὶ Ἐράτυρα. ταῦτα δὲ πρότερον μὲν κατεδυναστεύετο ἕκαστα, ὧν ἐν τοῖς Ἐγχελείοις οἱ Κάδμου καὶ Ἁρμονίας ἀπόγονοι ἦρχον, καὶ τὰ μυθευόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ δείκνυται. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὐχ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· οἱ δὲ Λυγκῆσται ὑπ' Ἀρραβαίῳ ἐγένοντο τοῦ Βακχιαδῶν γένους ὄντι· τούτου δ' ἦν θυγατριδῆ ἡ Φιλίππου μήτηρ τοῦ Ἀμύντου Εὐρυδίκη, Σίρρα δὲ θυγάτηρ· καὶ τῶν Ἠπειρωτῶν δὲ Μολοττοὶ ὑπὸ Πύρρῳ τῷ Νεοπτολέμου τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως καὶ τοῖς ἀπογόνοις αὐτοῦ Θετταλοῖς οὖσι γεγονότες· οἱ λοιποὶ δὲ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· εἶτ' ἐπικρατούντων ἀεί τινων κατέστρεψεν ἅπαντα εἰς τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχήν, πλὴν ὀλίγων τῶν ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ περὶ Λύγκον καὶ Πελαγονίαν καὶ Ὀρεστιάδα καὶ Ἐλίμειαν τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίαν ἐκάλουν, οἱ δ' ὕστερον καὶ ἐλευθέραν· ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ σύμπασαν τὴν μέχρι Κορκύρας Μακεδονίαν προσαγορεύουσιν, αἰτιολογοῦντες ἅμα ὅτι καὶ κουρᾷ καὶ διαλέκτῳ καὶ χλαμύδι καὶ ἄλλοις τοιούτοις χρῶνται παραπλησίως·The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi. Somewhere near by are also the silver mines of Damastium, {457} around which the Dyestae and the Encheleii (also called Sesarethii) together established their dominion; and near these people are also the Lyncestae, the territory Deuriopus, Pelagonian Tripolitis, the Eordi, Elimeia, and Eratyra. In earlier times these peoples were ruled separately, each by its own dynasty……But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that [u]in tonsure, language, short cloak[/u], and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#19

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:58 pm

Problemi qendron ne ate se "argumenti"i flashket i perdorur nga nacionalistet greke, por edhe te tjere qe kane perfaqesuar kete menyre nacionaliste neogreke te te menduarit mbeshteten ne klasen sunduese ose eliten "helene". Duhet vene ne pah se nuk ishte elite helene, por elite e helenizuar gje qe dallojne nga njera tjetra.

Elita e epiroteve te helenizuar e perdorte gjuhen helene si shenje te qyteterimit, njesoj sic e perdornin ta zeme Ruset e shekullit XIX gjuhen frenge.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4203
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#20

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:08 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Problemi qendron ne ate se "argumenti"i flashket i perdorur nga nacionalistet greke, por edhe te tjere qe kane perfaqesuar kete menyre nacionaliste neogreke te te menduarit mbeshteten ne klasen sunduese ose eliten "helene". Duhet vene ne pah se nuk ishte elite helene, por elite e helenizuar gje qe dallojne nga njera tjetra.

Elita e epiroteve te helenizuar e perdorte gjuhen helene si shenje te qyteterimit, njesoj sic e perdornin ta zeme Ruset e shekullit XIX gjuhen frenge.
Edhe njehere dua te saktesoj, se nuk ka pasur kurrfare helenizimi ne lashtesi, ne kuptimin te cilin e kemi sot. Kurse persa i perket gjuhes se elites epirote, ajo ka qene e njejte me ate te elites ilire. Se sa ndryshonte ajo nga gjuha popullore, eshte veshtire te thuhet, por nje gje eshte e sigurte, qe greket e sotem e trasheguan nje variant te gjuhes zyrtare te asaj kohe, nepermjet binomit kishe-shkolle dhe jo nepermjet vatres familjare(te pakten deri ne shek. e 18 -te).

Per me teper lexo:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#21

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:27 pm

ImageSe Epiri dhe Maqedonia nuk benin ne asnje menyre pjese ne boten Greke, deshmon fakti edhe i administrimit territorial gjate Perandorise Romake. Ketu dua te parashtroj edhe nje ceshtje tjeter po aq te rendishme: kufinjte e vertete te Ilirise asnjehere nuk jane dhene te mirepercaktuar saktesisht. Autore te ndryshem te lashtesise ngaterrojne mosamekeq kufinje e Ilirise. Disa i shohin me te zgjeruar, disa i pshtjellin sa nuk i merr vesh kush, disa te tjere i ngushtojne e keshtu me rradhe, mirepo asnje percaktim i qarte.

Mirepo provat gjuhesore, arkeologjike, atrnopologjike dhe etnologjike (shto kesaj burimet e shkruara antike) deshmojne se bota ilire shtrihej c'prej Panonise e Istrise e gjer ne Ambraki (si kufi i pranuar). Nderkaq, kufiri iliro-thrak asnjehere nuk eshte percaktuar gje qe te jep te kuptosh pernjefare afersie gjuhesore, etnike, kulturore mes ilireve dhe thrakeve. Sidoqofte, ndarjet provincialiste qe i etabluan Romaket kur e pushtuan Siujdhesen tone, me japin disi nje parafytyrim te qarte se Maqedonia e Epiri kane qene pjese e pandashme e botes ilire. Nese Epiri dhe Maqedoni paskan qene greke, atehere perse romaket nuk i perfshine keto treva ne arealin e Provinces se Ahese?

Mendoj se romaket kur e bene kete organizim-konfigurim te "Greqise" kishin parasysh kriterin etnik (nese mund ta quajme, tue pase parasysh dallimin e ketij koncepti) se ku shtrihej bota greke. Kufi me verior se Thesalia nuk kishte. Ndaj, romaket edhe e perfshine ne Ahe, Thesaline, rripin e Atikes se bashku me Peleponesin.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#22

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#23

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:40 pm

Image
Image
Image
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#24

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:22 pm

Image
Image
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#25

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:29 pm

Image
Image
Image
ARTA, the ancient Ambrocia, a town of Albania, is aituated on tho left bank of the river Arta (the ancient Arachthua), in 39° 8' N. lat, 20° 50' E. long., distant 7 milea from the north shore of tho Gulf of Arta, 9 miles N.E. by N. from Salahora, and 3G milea S.S.E. from Yanina. It ia governed by a bey under the pasha of Yaniua, and prior to the atruggle for Grecian freedom waa a very large and populous city, but having been stormed in 1828 by the Greeks under Marco Botzaris, it waa reduced to a ruinoua state. In 1830 Lieut. Wolfe estimated the population at 7000.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#26

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:36 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#27

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:02 am

Image
It is comparatively easy to say what Albania proper is. It is the mountainous home of an unconquered race which faces the Adriatic from the Gulf of Arta in the south
to Montenegro in the north
. It includes the greater part of Epirus with the town of Jannina, the regions round Koritza and Elbasan as far east as the Lake of Ochrida, and the
wild northern highlands on whose fringe lie the towns of Dibra, Prizrend, Ipek, and Scutari. Within these limits, save, indeed, within the walls of these four towns, there are few Slavs, and the population is the most homogeneous which can be found anywhere within
the Turkish Empire. But for the Jews and Greeks in Jannina town, and some scattered villages of VHachs, it is purely Albanian.
"Macedonia; its races and their future" Henry Brailsford
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#28

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:09 am

Image
Image
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#29

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:11 am

Albania forms the south-western portion of the remaining immediate possessions of European Turkey, and extends along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula, from the river Bojana to the Gulf of Arta. To the north it is bounded, since 1878-80, by the newly-won Montenegrin territory, and by Bosnia; on the south it is separated, since 1881, from Greece by the river Arta. The eastern boundary is a mountain-range, which to the north attains an altitude of 7990 feet.
This section is from the book "Chambers's Concise Gazetteer Of The World", by David Patrick. Also available from Amazon: Chambers's Concise Gazetteer Of The World.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#30

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:33 am

Image
Image
Image
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

Post Reply

Return to “Historia e Shqiperise”