"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#271

Post by erix77 » Sun May 15, 2011 10:17 am

megjithate kur jane shkruar dhe sa korrekte jane keto kopje nuk eshte dhe aq e rendesishme para faktit qe greket e rinj kane po aq lidhje me greket e vjeter sa dhe sllavomaqedonasit kane me maqedonet antike pra praktikisht zero,i vetmi komponent qe i lidh keto dy sekte fetare me ballkanasit antike eshte vetem popullsia shqiptaro-arberore qe jeton ne keto dy shtete prej mijera vjetesh.
Dhe e bëmë me besa besën ja të rrojmë ja të vdesëm!

Ishte thënë prej Zotit që të nderohen armët e Shqipërisë!

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#272

Post by Zeus10 » Fri May 20, 2011 11:22 pm

History: Fiction or science?
Jep nje kendveshtrim interesant, per "antikitetin".
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#273

Post by Zeus10 » Sat May 21, 2011 2:53 am

Ky liber, eshte shkrojtur nga dikush qe i ka shtjelluar faktet mire, dhe shpjegon "zbrazetiren" ne historine e njerezimit dhe kontradiktat e shumta, ne versionin zyrtar te historise:
http://books.google.com/books?id=YcjFAV ... &q&f=false

ja disa faqe, ne lidhje me temen tone:
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#274

Post by Zeus10 » Sat May 21, 2011 2:55 am

Megjithese, une nuk jam dakord me disa argumenta te shkrimtarit, ajo qe une jam 100 % dakort, eshte se Historia e Greqise "Antike", nuk fillon pertej shekullit te 10 pas "Krishtit".
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#275

Post by faon perrovarri » Sun May 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Mua me cudit fakti se cfare kerkojme te zbulojme ne ,kur neohelenet thone me 'krenari' qe :helines jane te gjithe ata qe zoterojne kulturen helene.
Si e tille GREQIZMA ,seshte gje tjeter vecse nje menyre te menduari ,nje ideologji,eshte nje menyre botkuptimi te natyres dhe shoqerise njerezore.Ky mesazh i filosofeve antike na tregon shume qarte se cfare perfaqeso greqizma,perse rrefysit e historise sote kerkojne te deformojne kete te vertete,ta anashkalojne permbajtjen e saj .
Dikujte i intereson,dikush e shtremberon qellimishte.Perse?Kjo eshte ceshtja qe shtrohet, Perse?

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#276

Post by land » Sun May 22, 2011 6:23 pm

faon perrovarri wrote: Si e tille GREQIZMA ,seshte gje tjeter vecse nje menyre te menduari ,nje ideologji,eshte nje menyre botkuptimi te natyres dhe shoqerise njerezore.Ky mesazh i filosofeve antike na tregon shume qarte se cfare perfaqeso greqizma,perse rrefysit e historise sote kerkojne te deformojne kete te vertete,ta anashkalojne permbajtjen e saj .
Po cilet filozofe antike? kopjet me te vjetra jane te pas shekullit te 10....dhe ekzistojne nja 7 kopje te "platonit" dhe nja 5 cope te "aristotelit"...sigurisht manipulatoret nuk kishin shtypshkronja te benin mijra kopje, i benin me dore.... ka nje diference prej 1300 vjetesh nga koha kur ka jetuar "platoni" i supozuar me kopjen me te vjeter qe i faturohet atij, merre me mend vete cka ndodhur.

shembull, nese kam ne dore nje liber te Kadarese, jam 100% i sigurt qe e ka shkruar ai, si mund te jemi te sigurt per aristotelet dhe platonet? aq me teper qe gjeocentrizmi i "aristotelit" i sherbeu kishes perfekt, ky eshte nje shpikje e kishes.

U desh rilindja europiane te hidhte poshte budallalleqet e "aristotelit" apo kujtdo qe shpiku "aristotelin".

kurse ai debili tjeter "platoni" akoma dhe sot shkakton remujra me atlantida te mbytura dhe budallalleqe me thes...ke nga ai forumi tjeter sa te duash me bemat e tij, e lidhin me ufo, me nibiru a ku di une, budallalleku njerezor s'ka fund.

PS, historia, filozofia etj konvencionale qe njohim, eshte gatuar ne mesjete, nga kisha, sepse ajo kishte pushtetin e plote.
"They are Nietzsche's over-men, these primitive Albanians — something between kings and tigers."
- Henry Noel Brailsford

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#277

Post by land » Wed May 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Ja te bej une nje pershkrim te qarte, te shkurter, konciz, sinjifikativ....per etnicitetin e grekeve.


GREKET JANE ORTHO-DOGS....ku orthos means "right", "true", "straight", kurse dogs ska nevoje per perkthimin tim. hahahaha
"They are Nietzsche's over-men, these primitive Albanians — something between kings and tigers."
- Henry Noel Brailsford

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#278

Post by Adriana » Wed May 25, 2011 4:47 pm

land wrote:Ja te bej une nje pershkrim te qarte, te shkurter, konciz, sinjifikativ....per etnicitetin e grekeve.


GREKET JANE ORTHO-DOGS....ku orthos means "right", "true", "straight", kurse dogs ska nevoje per perkthimin tim. hahahaha
-lol- -lol-
Jam fisnike e kam zemren gure,
si Shqiponja ne flamure.
Mburrem dhe jam krenare,
qe kam lindur Shqiptare.
Nga do qe te jem me ndjek fati,
se jam Shqiptare, shkurt hesapi !!



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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#279

Post by land » Wed May 25, 2011 5:05 pm

Adriana wrote:
land wrote:Ja te bej une nje pershkrim te qarte, te shkurter, konciz, sinjifikativ....per etnicitetin e grekeve.


GREKET JANE ORTHO-DOGS....ku orthos means "right", "true", "straight", kurse dogs ska nevoje per perkthimin tim. hahahaha
-lol- -lol-
but it's better gayreek orthodogs...dhe me pas kemi serbian orthodogs which means qener sherbetor...dhe dogs-at e tjere deri ne moske -lol-
"They are Nietzsche's over-men, these primitive Albanians — something between kings and tigers."
- Henry Noel Brailsford

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#280

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun May 29, 2011 9:41 pm

Ja me ne fund edhe origjina e vertet e Akejve (grekeve) te ardhur prej Palestine. Pjesa eshte shkeputur nga libri:

Fasciculus primus [-decimus] opusculorum quae ad historiam ac philologiam ...
Thomas Theodor Crusius

I cili citon nje veper me titull "Tebe" te nje autori Anonim :

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(Nicandro di Colofone. - Poet grek (shek. 2º p.e.s????)
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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#281

Post by Mallakastrioti » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:25 pm

Kur historianet heshtin dhe historigrafia zyrtare kerkohet te manipulohet. Ne udhetimet e tij Skilaksi i Kariandise (Scylax of Caryanda) i cili jetoi ne shek. 6-5 para eres sone, ka bere nje pershkrim te hollesishem lidhur fiseve dhe vendeve ne Ballkan. Mendohet se ai ka qene nje udhetar qe ndoshta i ka shkelur vendet te cilat ka pershkruar. Ne vepren e tij "Periplus", (duke shkeputur nje pjese dhe perkthyer), ai shkruan per nje fis ilir me nje emer interesant "MANI". Manin dhe maniotet te cilet ai i quan popull ilir i vendos diku poshte Autariateve. Autariatet kane qene fis i fuqishem Dardan. Mendimi im eshte se ky fis (Mani apo maniotet) kane banuar diku buze liqenit te Shkodres, pasi autori (Skilaksi) shkruan qe aty gjendet nje liqen i gjere.Historianet heshtin ose injorojne keto te dhena, por ne se eshte e vertet qe me dyndjet sllave shume fise ilire emigruan drejt jugut, ato sigurisht ne vendbanimet e reja vune emrat e trojeve te tyre fillestare, pra iliret kane qene ne Peleponez qe ne fillimet e shek 6-7 te eres sone, pasi edhe emri Mani per Peleponezin mos te harrojme qe eshte me i vjeter se Morea. Morea ju vu prej sllaveve diku ne shek. 12-13. Pra shqiptaret kane banuar ne Peleponez edhe me pare se shek 13-14 qe kerkon te na servirin historianet.

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#282

Post by Arbëri » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:44 pm

Murgu Kosma i Aetolias: ata që premtojnë për të mos e përdorur gjuhën shqipe,
unë do t’i çliroj nga të gjitha mëkatet e tyre

Titulli: Greece the Modern Sequel from 1821 to the Prezent, Edition 2
Autorë: John S. Koliopoulos and Thanos M. Veremis
Botues: C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2004
Në vitet 1770 një predikues i zjarrtë ortodoks, murgu Kosma i Aetolias, u përpoq që të frenonte valën e konvertimeve masive në Islam, në trojet veriore greke, nëpërmjet themelimit të shkollave greke në një sërë fshatrash në Thesali, Epir dhe Maqedoni, ku gjuha kish qenë prej kohësh e braktisur për gjuhën shqipe, vllahe apo sllave, dhe i detyronte fshatarët që të flisnin vetëm greqisht.
"Ju duhet të detyroni fëmijët tuaj që të mësojnë greqisht", u thoshte ai audiencës së tij, “për shkak se greqishtja është gjuha e kishës, dhe kombi ynë është grek.” Ai shkoi më tej, duke bërë këtë kërkesë: “Le të dalin e të thonë, ata që do të premtojnë për të mos e përdorur gjuhën shqipe në shtëpitë e tyre dhe kështu, unë do t’i çliroj nga të gjitha mëkatet e tyre."

------------------------------------------

In the 1770´s a fiery Orthodox preacher, the monk Kosmas of Aetolia, tried to stem the tide of mass conversions to Islam in the Northern Greek lands by founding Greek schools in a score of villages in Thessaly, Epirus and Macedonia, where the language had long been abandoned for Albanian, Vlach or Slav, and obliged peasants to speak only Greek.
‘You must make your children learn Greek’, he told his audience, ‘because Greek is the language of the church, and our nation is Greek.’ He went on to throw out this challenge: ‘Let those who will promise not to use Albanian at home rise and say so, and I shall absolve from all their sins.’
-Phanis Michalopoulos, Kosmas o Aitolos (in Greek), Athens, 1940, pp. 12, 46, 47, 97 ff.
page 159
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“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
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Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - albanolog, matematicient, filozof gjerman

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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#283

Post by Mallakastrioti » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:30 pm

Per lo più i Greci usano ciascuno la propria lingua, il proprio modo di vita e le
proprie vesti; ma gli Ateniesi usano una miscela di costumanze proprie di tutti i
Greci.

[Xenoph.], Respubl. Athen., 2, 8

"Per me teper Greket perdorin çdokush gjuhen e vet, menyren e vet te jeteses dhe kostumet e veta, por Athinasit perdorin nje perzierje dokesh te veta te te gjithe Grekeve"

Ksenofoni.
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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#284

Post by Mallakastrioti » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:59 pm

κόσμου τῆς πόλεως νεοχμῶσαι εἰκὸς ἦν: ἐπεὶ ἄλλοι γε συχνοὶ ἐν βαρβάροις οἰκοῦντες ὀλίγου χρόνου διελθόντος ἅπαν τὸ Ἑλληνικὸν ἀπέμαθον, ὡς μήτε φωνὴν Ἑλλάδα φθέγγεσθαι μήτε ἐπιτηδεύμασιν Ελλήνων χρῆσθαι, μήτε θεοὺς τοὺς αὐτοὺς νομίζειν, μήτε νόμους τοὺς ἐπιεικεῖς, ᾧ μάλιστα διαλλάσσει φύσις Ἑλλὰς βαρβάρου, μήτε τῶν ἄλλων συμβολαίων μηδ᾽ ὁτιοῦν. ἀποχρῶσι δὲ τὸν λόγον τόνδε ὡς ἀληθῆ εἶναι Ἀχαιῶν οἱ περὶ τὸν Πόντον ᾠκημένοι τεκμηριῶσαι, Ἠλείων μὲν ἐκ τοῦ Ἑλληνικωτάτου γενόμενοι, βαρβάρων δὲ συμπάντων τῶν νῦν ὄντες ἀγριώτατοι.

Molti altri, per effetto della loro permanenza in mezzo ai barbari, hanno dimenticato in breve tempo tutte le loro caratteristiche greche, e non usano più la lingua greca, non si servono più dei costumi greci, non venerano più gli stessi dei, non hanno più le
stesse giuste leggi, per cui soprattutto la natura dei Greci differisce da quella dei barbari, insomma non si accordano più con loro in nessuna delle altre istituzioni. Sufficiente prova della mia tesi è costituita da quegli Achei che abitano lungo le coste del Ponto, che pur essendo di origine eleate, dunque Greci autentici, sono ora i più
feroci di tutti i barbari.
Dion. Hal., Ant. Rom., I, 89, 4

"Shume te tjere, per efekt te qendrimit te tyre midis barbareve, kane harruar ne kohe te shkurter te gjitha karakteristikat greke, dhe nuk perdorin me gjuhen greke, nuk perdorin me kostumet greke, nuk adhurojne me te njejtet zota, nuk kane me te njejtat ligje te drejta, per te cilat mbi te gjitha dallon natyra e Grekeve prej barbareve, pra nuk pajtohen me me asnje prej institucioneve te tjera. Prove e mjaftueshme e tezes sime eshte e bazuar prej atyre Akejeve qe banojne pergjat brigjeve te Pontit, qe edhe duke qene me origjine eleate (hellene), pra Grek autentike, jane tani barbaret me te ashper"

Dionis Halikarnasi.

----

Ne se gjuha e keshtuquajtur greke do kish qene gjuhe amtare dhe me baza apo rrenje te mirefillte, nuk do "asimiloheshin" kaq shpejt keta te keshtuquajtur grek-akeje e te ktheheshin ne barbar kaq SHPEJT!
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Re: Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

#285

Post by AgrianShigjetari » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:59 pm

Now Cneius Piso, hurrying to the execution of his purposes, terrified the city of Athens by a tempestuous entry, and reproached them in a severe speech, with oblique censure of Germanicus, that, debasing the dignity of the Roman name, he had paid excessive court, not to the Athenians, by so many slaughters long since extinct, but to the then mixed scum of nations there

The Reign of Tiberius, from of the First Six Annals of Tacitus
http://books.google.com/books?id=qoaY-j ... re&f=false
Nga Pausania:
Corinth is no longer inhabited by any of the old Corinthians, but by colonists sent out by the Romans……(2.1.2).
.......while Delos, once the common market of Greece, has no Delian inhabitants

......(8.33.2).
- Strabonis geographicorum epitome:

Unknown author, known simply as Epitomiser of Strabo. Lived during the 10th century AD. According to him, at the end of the 10th century AD, Slavs formed almost the entire population of Macedonia, Epirus, continental Greece, and the Peloponnese.

"Και νυν δε πάσαν Ηπειρων και Ελλάδα σχεδόν και Πελοποννησο και Μακεδονίαν Σκύθαι Σκλάβοι νέμονται" (p. 574):

"...Scythi-Slavs inhabit all Epirus, almost entire Greece, Peloponnese and Macedonia."

- Menander asserts in 581 AD that Slavs, in great numbers (100,000), devastated Greece.

- In 588/9 AD, according to the statement of Evagrius, all Greece was laid waste with fire and sword.

- A letter of Patriarch Nicolaus, addressed to Alexius the First, mentions that in the year 807 AD Slavs (and Avars) had held possession of the Peloponnese since 589 AD. Apparently, they had made themselves so independent that no Roman/"Byzantine" connected with Imperial administration then dared to enter the country/Peloponnese.

- According to Roman/"Byzantine" traveler Cananus, writing in 1418 AD, the Slavonic tongue was spoken in Zygos (Exo Mani), i.e. the area roughly between Itylo and Kalamata. Many scholars believe that Maniots of this area were descended from the Slavonic Melingians.

- Goths devastate and depopulate Greece in 3rd Century AD.
Edward Gibbon's "The History of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/2/5/7/...0.htm#2HCH0004

When we are informed that the third fleet, equipped by the Goths in the ports of Bosphorus, consisted of five hundred sails of ships, 120 our ready imagination instantly computes and multiplies the formidable armament; but, as we are assured by the judicious Strabo, 121 that the piratical vessels used by the barbarians of Pontus and the Lesser Scythia, were not capable of containing more than twenty-five or thirty men we may safely affirm, that fifteen thousand warriors, at the most, embarked in this great expedition. Impatient of the limits of the Euxine, they steered their destructive course from the Cimmerian to the Thracian Bosphorus. When they had almost gained the middle of the Straits, they were suddenly driven back to the entrance of them; till a favorable wind, springing up the next day, carried them in a few hours into the placid sea, or rather lake, of the Propontis. Their landing on the little island of Cyzicus was attended with the ruin of that ancient and noble city. From thence issuing again through the narrow passage of the Hellespont, they pursued their winding navigation amidst the numerous islands scattered over the Archipelago, or the Aegean Sea. The assistance of captives and deserters must have been very necessary to pilot their vessels, and to direct their various incursions, as well on the coast of Greece as on that of Asia. At length the Gothic fleet anchored in the port of Piraeus, five miles distant from Athens, 122 which had attempted to make some preparations for a vigorous defence. Cleodamus, one of the engineers employed by the emperor's orders to fortify the maritime cities against the Goths, had already begun to repair the ancient walls, fallen to decay since the time of Scylla. The efforts of his skill were ineffectual, and the barbarians became masters of the native seat of the muses and the arts. But while the conquerors abandoned themselves to the license of plunder and intemperance, their fleet, that lay with a slender guard in the harbor of Piraeus, was unexpectedly attacked by the brave Dexippus, who, flying with the engineer Cleodamus from the sack of Athens, collected a hasty band of volunteers, peasants as well as soldiers, and in some measure avenged the calamities of his country.

But this exploit, whatever lustre it might shed on the declining age of Athens, served rather to irritate than to subdue the undaunted spirit of the northern invaders. A general conflagration blazed out at the same time in every district of Greece. Thebes and Argos, Corinth and Sparta, which had formerly waged such memorable wars against each other, were now unable to bring an army into the field, or even to defend their ruined fortifications. The rage of war, both by land and by sea, spread from the eastern point of Sunium to the western coast of Epirus. The Goths had already advanced within sight of Italy, when the approach of such imminent danger awakened the indolent Gallienus from his dream of pleasure.

But as their numbers were gradually wasted by the sword, by shipwrecks, and by the influence of a warm climate, they were perpetually renewed by troops of banditti and deserters, who flocked to the standard of plunder, and by a crowd of fugitive slaves, often of German or Sarmatian extraction, who eagerly seized the glorious opportunity of freedom and revenge. In these expeditions, the Gothic nation claimed a superior share of honor and danger; but the tribes that fought under the Gothic banners are sometimes distinguished and sometimes confounded in the imperfect histories of that age; and as the barbarian fleets seemed to issue from the mouth of the Tanais, the vague but familiar appellation of Scythians was frequently bestowed on the mixed multitude.

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