"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#31

Post by pirro » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:43 pm

Faleminderit arberi!!!
do ishte mire sikur te hapnim nje teme mbi Kosoven ku te postohen fakte, faqe librash harta foto e tej mbi perkatesine shqiptare te kosoves.
Pra te sillen materiale qe tregojne:
- qe kosova ka qene e e banuar gjithmone me shqiptqre (te tregojme lidhjet iliro shqiptare)
- qe te tregojne krimet qe kane bere serbet mbi popullsine shqiptare perfshire zonen e Nishit dhe zona te tjera qe kane qene te banuara me shqiptare..
- e tej e tej...

Arberi mua faqet me hapen pa problem...

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#32

Post by Arbëri » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:47 pm

pirro wrote:Faleminderit arberi!!!
do ishte mire sikur te hapnim nje teme mbi Kosoven ku te postohen fakte, faqe librash harta foto e tej mbi perkatesine shqiptare te kosoves.
Pra te sillen materiale qe tregojne:
- qe kosova ka qene e e banuar gjithmone me shqiptqre (te tregojme lidhjet iliro shqiptare)
- qe te tregojne krimet qe kane bere serbet mbi popullsine shqiptare perfshire zonen e Nishit dhe zona te tjera qe kane qene te banuara me shqiptare..
- e tej e tej...

Arberi mua faqet me hapen pa problem...
Atëher ke unë qenka problemi .. FLM.


Tema për historinë e Kosovës me sa e di unë mungon ??
“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - albanolog, matematicient, filozof gjerman

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#33

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:35 pm

Ja Pirro & Arbër hapa një temë të posaqme:

http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1944
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#34

Post by arise6327 » Sun May 23, 2010 7:53 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Ajo qe me ka ngjallur perhere kurreshtine ishte permendja e Dardaneve ne hieroglifet egjiptiane te kohes se Ramsesit II.

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Sources: Goetze, A., "The Hittites and Syria (1300-1200 B.C.)", in Cambridge Ancient History (1975) p. 253; Gardiner, Alan, The Kadesh Inscriptions of Ramesses II (1975) pp. 57ff.; Breasted, James Henry, Ancient Records of Egypt; Historical Records (1906) pp. 125ff.; Lichtheim, Mirian, Ancient Egyptian Literature, Vol. 2: The New Kingdom (1978) pp. 57ff.
Dardanet permenden si aleate te Mbreterise Hittite te kryesuar nga Muwatalli II kunder ushtrive egjiptiane te Ramsesit II, beteje qe mendohet te jete zhvilluar me 1274 p.l.K ne afersi te Kadeshit, ndaj edhe quhet Beteja e Kadeshit.

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Nga vizita qe e pata bere ne Siri, vitin e kaluar, bashke me nje mik sirian, i cili ishte student i arkeologjise e pyeta ne lidhje me Kadeshin dhe betejen epike te zhvilluar aty. Ai duke e pare interesin tim per Dardanet qe muaren pjese ne kete beteje, me tha se ekzistojne disa toponime rreth e perqark Kadeshit dhe liqenit te tij me emra te ngjashem si Dardan.

Kete ma verifikoi edhe me shume, leximi i vepres se Aristidh Koles 'Gjuha e Perendive' ku e permendtte nje vis me emrin Dardania ne kufirin Turki - Siri.
Ke ngatërruar Dardaninë vëlla, ajo ishte tjetër gjë. Edhe autorët e lashtë i dallonin të dyja Dardanitë si "Dardania(ajo në Ballkan)" edhe "Dardania në Azi(Ajo afër Trojës)".

Më ngjan pak me ato pretendimet idiote Greke që thonë se "shqiptarët nuk e pranojnë se kanë origjina nga Kaukazi edhe pse atje ka patur një krahinë që quhej Albania". -hahaha- .... psikopetër.
[i]Nuk jam katolik Italian, nuk jam mysliman turk e as nuk jam ortodoks grek, por jam ateist shqiptar.[/i]

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#35

Post by arise6327 » Sun May 23, 2010 8:15 pm

alfeko sukaraku wrote:Permendet nga Homeri si qyteti i cili mori pjese ne luften e Trojes krahas trojanve.Ne harten e meposhtme Dardania duket te jete nje qytet krah Trojes....por shtrirja reale e njohur e Dardanis e cila vendoset ne veri te Trojes....duket me qarte ne kohet e njohura historike.Harta qe paraqes na jep nje ide..por nuk na tregon shtrirjen e njohur te dardanis.

Do doja tju kujtoja thenien e Homerit...Dia Dardanin lindi i cili kryeja i qendroj pjelles sone....vetem ne malin ida jetonin ateher ne rreze te tij.Nga Dardani rrjeth Ylli....emri i tjeter i trojes ...edhe vete titulli i i Ilia=yllia=iliada.

Priami ishte Dardan edhe kishte marre grua Pellazge...djemet e tij Dardanopellazge....
-eek-

O vëlla ne që studiojmë histori mos na nxirr si legena.

Emra Dardania ka patur edhe në Persi.

Pastaj Homeri kur flet për Dardanin, të birin e Ilirit flet me terma gati gati qesharak, nëse do muarrim Homerin për referencë, atëherë i bie të dali se Epiri ishte helen. Mos harro Kadmin, edhe të birin e tij "Ilirin" sipas Homerit.

-

Natyralisht, emrin Helen ka tjetër kuptim, edhe nuk ka ekzistuar asnjë udhëheqës i dokumetuar me emrin Ilir, Dardan, Helen apo Kadm. Kjo është thjesht mitologji.

-

Mbreti i parë që themeloi ilirinë quhej "Ilos". Edhe pse shkruhet "Hyllos" lexohet "Ilos". Çdo gjuhë ka alfabetin e vetë edhe mënyrën e shqiptim përkatës.

-

Ti ke bërë një lëmsh më lart që nuk çfarë të them...

-

1-Iliri ishte figurë mitologjike.
2-Dardani ishte figurë mitologjike.
3-Emri "Iliri" nuk rrjedh nga mbreti mitologjik Iliri, kjo vlen edhe për Dardaninë që nuk rrjedh nga mbreti mitologjik Dardani.
4-Dardani në Azinë e vogël ishte tjetër gjë me Dardaninë në Emos(Ballkan). Vendemri Dardania mund të gjendet edhe në Iranin modern, por nuk ka lidhje me dy Dardanitë e tjera, ky emër është thjesht IE.
5-Mbreti i parë i dokumetuar i Ilirisë ishte Hyllos(Lexohet: Ilos).
6-Iliada muarri këtë emër nga emri Ilion, që ishte edhe emri i Trojës.
7-Ajo që më bën tamam të inatosem është kur thua që Priami ishte dardan edhe ishte martuar me grua pellazge. -lol- REFERNCAT?

-

Pastaj nëse i futemi mitologjisë dalim në udhë pa krye.

-Kadmi i ati i Ilirit. Kadmi ishte fenikës.
-Iliri kishte vëlla Keltin edhe Galasin.
-Mes fëmijëve të Ilirit ishte Skordiksi edhe Tribali.
-lol-
KONFUZION!
:shock:
Ilirët ishin tërësisht ndryshe nga keltët, skordiksët ishin fis kelt, tribalët ishin trakë sipas N.Cekës.

Prandaj mitologjia është thjesht QESHARAKE!

Prapë vazhdoj të insistoj ku e gjete atë referencën që gruaja e Priamit na paska qenë pellazge? :shock:
[i]Nuk jam katolik Italian, nuk jam mysliman turk e as nuk jam ortodoks grek, por jam ateist shqiptar.[/i]

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#36

Post by Zeus10 » Sun May 23, 2010 8:37 pm

arise6327 wrote:
alfeko sukaraku wrote:Permendet nga Homeri si qyteti i cili mori pjese ne luften e Trojes krahas trojanve.Ne harten e meposhtme Dardania duket te jete nje qytet krah Trojes....por shtrirja reale e njohur e Dardanis e cila vendoset ne veri te Trojes....duket me qarte ne kohet e njohura historike.Harta qe paraqes na jep nje ide..por nuk na tregon shtrirjen e njohur te dardanis.

Do doja tju kujtoja thenien e Homerit...Dia Dardanin lindi i cili kryeja i qendroj pjelles sone....vetem ne malin ida jetonin ateher ne rreze te tij.Nga Dardani rrjeth Ylli....emri i tjeter i trojes ...edhe vete titulli i i Ilia=yllia=iliada.

Priami ishte Dardan edhe kishte marre grua Pellazge...djemet e tij Dardanopellazge....
-eek-

O vëlla ne që studiojmë histori mos na nxirr si legena.

Emra Dardania ka patur edhe në Persi.

Pastaj Homeri kur flet për Dardanin, të birin e Ilirit flet me terma gati gati qesharak, nëse do muarrim Homerin për referencë, atëherë i bie të dali se Epiri ishte helen. Mos harro Kadmin, edhe të birin e tij "Ilirin" sipas Homerit.

-

Natyralisht, emrin Helen ka tjetër kuptim, edhe nuk ka ekzistuar asnjë udhëheqës i dokumetuar me emrin Ilir, Dardan, Helen apo Kadm. Kjo është thjesht mitologji.

-

Mbreti i parë që themeloi ilirinë quhej "Ilos". Edhe pse shkruhet "Hyllos" lexohet "Ilos". Çdo gjuhë ka alfabetin e vetë edhe mënyrën e shqiptim përkatës.

-

Ti ke bërë një lëmsh më lart që nuk çfarë të them...

-

1-Iliri ishte figurë mitologjike.
2-Dardani ishte figurë mitologjike.
3-Emri "Iliri" nuk rrjedh nga mbreti mitologjik Iliri, kjo vlen edhe për Dardaninë që nuk rrjedh nga mbreti mitologjik Dardani.
4-Dardani në Azinë e vogël ishte tjetër gjë me Dardaninë në Emos(Ballkan). Vendemri Dardania mund të gjendet edhe në Iranin modern, por nuk ka lidhje me dy Dardanitë e tjera, ky emër është thjesht IE.
5-Mbreti i parë i dokumetuar i Ilirisë ishte Hyllos(Lexohet: Ilos).
6-Iliada muarri këtë emër nga emri Ilion, që ishte edhe emri i Trojës.
7-Ajo që më bën tamam të inatosem është kur thua që Priami ishte dardan edhe ishte martuar me grua pellazge. -lol- REFERNCAT?

-

Pastaj nëse i futemi mitologjisë dalim në udhë pa krye.

-Kadmi i ati i Ilirit. Kadmi ishte fenikës.
-Iliri kishte vëlla Keltin edhe Galasin.
-Mes fëmijëve të Ilirit ishte Skordiksi edhe Tribali.
-lol-
KONFUZION!
:shock:
Ilirët ishin tërësisht ndryshe nga keltët, skordiksët ishin fis kelt, tribalët ishin trakë sipas N.Cekës.

Prandaj mitologjia është thjesht QESHARAKE!

Prapë vazhdoj të insistoj ku e gjete atë referencën që gruaja e Priamit na paska qenë pellazge? :shock:

E gjithe kjo vlen dhe per helenet saktesisht sa dhe per te tjeret, por helenet moderne, nuk pertojne ta paraqesin mitologjine si histori, me qellimin e vetem qe ti shpallin helenet e vjeter si paraardhesit e tyre historike.

Meqe ra fjala, Homeri ska permendur ndonjehere iliret per gjenealogjine e tyre mitike kadmeike, bile une nuk di ndonje rresht qe Homeri ta kete permendur emrin Iliria apo Ilire..
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#37

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun May 23, 2010 8:42 pm

arise6327 wrote: Ke ngatërruar Dardaninë vëlla, ajo ishte tjetër gjë. Edhe autorët e lashtë i dallonin të dyja Dardanitë si "Dardania(ajo në Ballkan)" edhe "Dardania në Azi(Ajo afër Trojës)".

Më ngjan pak me ato pretendimet idiote Greke që thonë se "shqiptarët nuk e pranojnë se kanë origjina nga Kaukazi edhe pse atje ka patur një krahinë që quhej Albania". -hahaha- .... psikopetër.
Hamendesime jane keto! Shihet qarte qe ju po i shperfillni cuditerisht te gjitha autoritetet e deri-tanishme qe kane shkrire dije e mund ne dardanet:
Fanula Papazoglu, professor of ancient history at the University of Belgrade, who has written extensively on the Illyrians (see among others, Les origines et la destinee de l'Etat illyrien - Illyrii proprie dicti, in Historia, Wiesbaden, 14, 1965, Heft 2), has also devoted a long chapter to the Dardanians in her work The Central Balkan Tribes in Pre-Roman Times...(Engl. Transl. from the Serbo-Croatian, Amsterdam, Hakkert, 1978, 664 p.). In this latter work she indicates that
Not one of the peoples with whom we have to deal in this book has such a claim to the epithet "Balkan" as the Dardanians... because they appear as the most stable and the most conservative ethnic element in the area where everything was exposed to constant change, and also because they, with their roots in the distant prehomeric age, and living in the frontiers of the Illyrian and the Thracian worlds retained their individuality and, alone among the peoples of that region succeeded in maintaining themselves as an ethnic unity even when they were militarily and politically subjected by the Roman arms...and when at the end of the ancient world, the Balkans were involved in far-reaching ethnic perturbations, the Dardanians, of all the Central Balkan tribes, played the greatest part in the genesis of the new peoples who took the
place of the old (p.131).
After pointing out that the Dardanians had founded Troy, that Dardanelles is a name derived from them, that Dardanians were also encountered in Italy, Prof. Papazoglu adds that when the Dardanians reappear in our sources as a historically documented people in the central part of the Balkans, they are related to the Illyrians. Illyrian elements have also been noted among the Dardanians in Asia Minor. This all increases the probability of the theory that the Illyrians belonged to the oldest In ... Peninsula (see pp.131-134).
The Albanian scholar, Zef Mirdita, of the University of Prishtina, who, like his colleague of the University of Belgrade, has devoted much time to the study of the Dardanians, has also arrived at the same conclusions (see among others, Studime Dardane, Prishtinë, 1980).39

http://www.home.no/dukagjin/AlbYug-02.html

arise6327, ke harruar vella, qe cfaredo orvatjeje per kundershtim ndaj nje hipoteze apo edhe teorie ne historiografi duhet te disponoje referencime te sakta, te bollshme qe provojne te kunderten e asaj ndaj te ciles ke mospajtim. Ne kete rast te domosdoshme jane:

1) Burimet antike
2) Te dhenat linguistike
3) Te dhenat arkeologjike.

Ne kundershtimin tuaj ndaj dy Dardanive te 'ndryshme' s'na dhe asnje burim ose fakt qe te defton se ato ishin te ndryshme. Pa me trego, njehere, cilat burime te lashta dallonin dy Dardanite? Nese (te supozojme per hir te argumentit) se ka pasur ndryshesa midis dy Dardanive, atehere ato kane qene te natyres regjionale dhe jo etnike.

Si eshte e mundur qe te mos kete kurrfare ndryshimi midis dy Myzive (Moesia/Mysia) nderkaq ndaj dy Dardanive po. Ne te mire te pohimit tim flet edhe Straboni:
[VII.2] Now the Greeks used to suppose that the Getae were Thracians; and the Getae lived on either side the Ister, as did also the Mysi, these also being Thracians and identical with the people who are now called Moesi; from these Mysi sprang also the Mysi who now live between the Lydians and the Phrygians and Trojans. And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe, as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians, the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians. These peoples, to be sure, have all utterly quitted Europe, but the Mysi have remained there. And Poseidonius seems to me to be correct in his conjecture that Homer designates the Mysi in Europe (I mean those in Thrace) when he says, "But back he turned his shining eyes, and looked far away towards the land of the horse-tending Thracians, and of the Mysi, hand-to‑hand fighters" for surely, if one should take Homer to mean the Mysi in Asia, the statement would not hang together. Indeed, when Zeus turns his eyes away from the Trojans towards the land of the Thracians, it would be the act of a man who confuses the continents and does not understand the poet's phraseology to connect with Thrace the land of the Asiatic Mysi, who are not "far away," but have a common boundary with the Troad and are situated behind it and on either side of it, and are separated from Thrace by the broad Hellespont; for "back he turned" generally means "to the rear," and he who transfers his gaze from the Trojans to the people who are either in the rear of the Trojans or on their flanks, does indeed transfer his gaze rather far, but not at all "to the rear". Again, the appended phrase is testimony to this very view, because the poet connected with the Mysi the "Hippemolgi" and "Galactophagi" and "Abii," who are indeed the wagon-dwelling Scythians and Sarmatians. For at the present time these tribes, as well as the Bastarnian tribes, are mingled with the Thracians (more indeed with those outside the Ister, but also with those inside). And mingled with them are also the Celtic tribes — the Boii, the Scordisci, and the Taurisci. However, the Scordisci are by some called "Scordistae"; and the Taurisci are called also "Ligurisci" and "Tauristae".
73. The Phrygians had an equipment very like that of the Paphlagonians with some slight difference. Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians.

73. Φρύγες δὲ ἀγχοτάτω τῆς Παφλαγονικῆς σκευὴν εἶχον, ὀλίγον παραλλάσσοντες. οἱ δὲ Φρύγες, ὡς Μακεδόνες λέγουσι, ἐκαλέοντο Βρίγες χρόνον ὅσον Εὐρωπήιοι ἐόντες σύνοικοι ἦσαν Μακεδόσι, μεταβάντες δὲ ἐς τὴν Ἀσίην ἅμα τῇ χώρῃ καὶ τὸ οὔνομα μετέβαλον ἐς Φρύγας. Ἀρμένιοι δὲ κατά περ Φρύγες ἐσεσάχατο, ἐόντες Φρυγῶν ἄποικοι.
[12] There is an ancient story of the Armenian race to this effect: that Armenus of Armenium, a Thessalian city, which lies between Pherae and Larisa on Lake Boebe, as I have already said, accompanied Jason into Armenia; and Cyrsilus the Pharsalian and Medius the Larisaean, who accompanied Alexander, say that Armenia was named after him, and that, of the followers of Armenus, some took up their abode in Acilisene, which in earlier times was subject to the Sopheni, whereas others took up their abode in Syspiritis, as far as Calachene and Adiabene, outside the Armenian mountains. They also say that the clothing of the Armenians is Thessalian, for example, the long tunics, which in tragedies are called Thessalian ...
...pra t'gjitha burimet e mundshme flasin per zhvendosje, ngulitje ose shtegtim te fiseve pellezgjike ne drejtim te Azise se Vogel, Kaukazit dhe me gjere.

Edhe nje here te Straboni. Emrat e fiseve shtegtare ne Troade (me origjine nga Thrako-Iliria):

Medobithynians,
Bithynians,
Thynians
Mariandynians

Straboni permend dy nen-fiset e fuqishme dardane:
To the Dardaniatae belong also the Galabrii, among whom is an ancient city, and the Thunatae, whose country joins that of the Medi, a Thracian tribe on the east.
Tere perfundimet e mundshme konvergojne ne ate qe popullata dardane ne Troade (Azi te Vogel) ishte vecse zgjatim i Dardaneve kontinental. Ne te mire te pohimit tim sherben vete analiza e emrave te fiseve ballkanike dhe atyre ne Troade, ku mbizoteron perberesi -thyn.

Ilirologu akademik, A.Stipcevic thote qe materiali arkeologjik ne Azine e Vogel, gjegjesisht ne kendin e saj me veri-perendimor flet per nje prezence te padiskutueshme te ilireve.

Gjithashtu, edhe makro-toponimi Albania ne TransKaukaz shpjegohet ne te njejten menyre: gjegjesisht burimet e shkruara antike flasin per vendosje fisesh perendim-lindje. Ne rastin konkret, Albanet ne fjale e kane origjinen ballkanike (Tacitu) ose "italike" (Justini). Albanet e atjeshem nderonin si krye-zot te tyrin Zeusin, ndaj kjo na ndihmon ma lehte me e nxjerre vendbanimin e tyre konkret qe duhet te kete qene Thesalia pellazgjike.

Ja cfare thote Tacitusi:
Their sole strength was in cavalry; Pharasmanes was also powerful in infantry, for the Iberians and Albanians, inhabiting as they did a densely wooded country, were more inured to hardship and endurance. They claim to have been descended from the Thessalians, at the period when Jason, after the departure of Medea and the children born of her, returned subsequently to the empty palace of Aeetes, and the vacant kingdom of Colchi.

atque illis sola in equite vis: Pharasmanes et pedite valebat. nam Hiberi Albanique saltuosos locos incolentes duritiae patientiaeque magis insuevere; feruntque se Thessalis ortos, qua tempestate Iaso post avectam Medeam genitosque ex ea liberos inanem mox regiam Aeetae vacuosque Colchos repetivit.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/a06030.htm
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#38

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Sun May 23, 2010 8:45 pm

arise6327 wrote:
alfeko sukaraku wrote:Permendet nga Homeri si qyteti i cili mori pjese ne luften e Trojes krahas trojanve.Ne harten e meposhtme Dardania duket te jete nje qytet krah Trojes....por shtrirja reale e njohur e Dardanis e cila vendoset ne veri te Trojes....duket me qarte ne kohet e njohura historike.Harta qe paraqes na jep nje ide..por nuk na tregon shtrirjen e njohur te dardanis.

Do doja tju kujtoja thenien e Homerit...Dia Dardanin lindi i cili kryeja i qendroj pjelles sone....vetem ne malin ida jetonin ateher ne rreze te tij.Nga Dardani rrjeth Ylli....emri i tjeter i trojes ...edhe vete titulli i i Ilia=yllia=iliada.

Priami ishte Dardan edhe kishte marre grua Pellazge...djemet e tij Dardanopellazge....
-eek-

O vëlla ne që studiojmë histori mos na nxirr si legena.

E
Prandaj mitologjia është thjesht QESHARAKE!

Prapë vazhdoj të insistoj ku e gjete atë referencën që gruaja e Priamit na paska qenë pellazge? :shock:
o historiano..e ke lexuar ndonjeher iliaden??? ne c koperativ studjon ti plako??
fjalet "nga porta e dardanit-mos u vrejt fara e dardanit" nuk perdoren aspak ne iliaden e koperatives tende?
nuk te nxjerr une legen ore jo..nuk eshte qellimi ime ky, por kaliti pak njohurit e tua me par se te flasesh

Homeri nuk ka "shkruajtur "mitologji edhe sigurisht qe nuk mund te merret per baze, por merret si nje e dhen edhe vetem e dhene..edhe me te dhena te tilla eshte e endertuar perrallologjia qe studjon ne koperativen tende
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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#39

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Sun May 23, 2010 8:51 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:
arise6327 wrote: Ke ngatërruar Dardaninë vëlla, ajo ishte tjetër gjë. Edhe autorët e lashtë i dallonin të dyja Dardanitë si "Dardania(ajo në Ballkan)" edhe "Dardania në Azi(Ajo afër Trojës)".

Më ngjan pak me ato pretendimet idiote Greke që thonë se "shqiptarët nuk e pranojnë se kanë origjina nga Kaukazi edhe pse atje ka patur një krahinë që quhej Albania". -hahaha- .... psikopetër.
arise6327, ke harruar vella, qe cfaredo orvatjeje per kundershtim ndaj nje hipoteze apo edhe teorie ne historiografi duhet te disponoje referencime te sakta, te bollshme qe provojne te kunderten e asaj ndaj te ciles ke mospajtim. Ne kete rast te domosdoshme jane:

1) Burimet antike
2) Te dhenat linguistike
3) Te dhenat arkeologjike.

Ne kundershtimin tuaj ndaj dy Dardanive te 'ndryshme' s'na dhe asnje burim ose fakt qe te defton se ato ishin te ndryshme. Pa me trego, njehere, cilat burime te lashta dallonin dy Dardanite? Nese (te supozojme per hir te argumentit) se ka pasur ndryshesa midis dy Dardanive, atehere ato kane qene te natyres regjionale dhe jo etnike.

Si eshte e mundur qe te mos kete kurrfare ndryshimi midis dy Myzive (Moesia/Mysia) nderkaq ndaj dy Dardanive po. Ne te mire te pohimit tim flet edhe Straboni:
[VII.2] Now the Greeks used to suppose that the Getae were Thracians; and the Getae lived on either side the Ister, as did also the Mysi, these also being Thracians and identical with the people who are now called Moesi; from these Mysi sprang also the Mysi who now live between the Lydians and the Phrygians and Trojans. And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe, as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians, the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians. These peoples, to be sure, have all utterly quitted Europe, but the Mysi have remained there. And Poseidonius seems to me to be correct in his conjecture that Homer designates the Mysi in Europe (I mean those in Thrace) when he says, "But back he turned his shining eyes, and looked far away towards the land of the horse-tending Thracians, and of the Mysi, hand-to‑hand fighters" for surely, if one should take Homer to mean the Mysi in Asia, the statement would not hang together. Indeed, when Zeus turns his eyes away from the Trojans towards the land of the Thracians, it would be the act of a man who confuses the continents and does not understand the poet's phraseology to connect with Thrace the land of the Asiatic Mysi, who are not "far away," but have a common boundary with the Troad and are situated behind it and on either side of it, and are separated from Thrace by the broad Hellespont; for "back he turned" generally means "to the rear," and he who transfers his gaze from the Trojans to the people who are either in the rear of the Trojans or on their flanks, does indeed transfer his gaze rather far, but not at all "to the rear". Again, the appended phrase is testimony to this very view, because the poet connected with the Mysi the "Hippemolgi" and "Galactophagi" and "Abii," who are indeed the wagon-dwelling Scythians and Sarmatians. For at the present time these tribes, as well as the Bastarnian tribes, are mingled with the Thracians (more indeed with those outside the Ister, but also with those inside). And mingled with them are also the Celtic tribes — the Boii, the Scordisci, and the Taurisci. However, the Scordisci are by some called "Scordistae"; and the Taurisci are called also "Ligurisci" and "Tauristae".
Medobithynians,
Bithynians,
Thynians
Mariandynians

Straboni permend dy nen-fiset e fuqishme dardane:
To the Dardaniatae belong also the Galabrii, among whom is an ancient city, and the Thunatae, whose country joins that of the Medi, a Thracian tribe on the east.
Tere perfundimet e mundshme konvergojne ne ate qe popullata dardane ne Troade (Azi te Vogel) ishte vecse zgjatim i Dardaneve kontinental. Ne te mire te pohimit tim sherben vete analiza e emrave te fiseve ballkanike dhe atyre ne Troade, ku mbizoteron perberesi -thyn.

Ilirologu akademik, A.Stipcevic thote qe materiali arkeologjik ne Azine e Vogel, gjegjesisht ne kendin e saj me veri-perendimor flet per nje prezence te padiskutueshme te ilireve.
greket vete e pretendojn prejardhjen e tyre nga kaukazi..sepse atu thuhet se u zhvillua qytetrimi indoevropian..keshtu qe historiano ke ngelur shume mbase plako
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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#40

Post by Zeus10 » Sun May 23, 2010 9:06 pm

Ne e dime me siguri, qe ka pasur Dardani ne Ballkan dhe jo nga librat me karrakter mitologjik, por ne pershkrimet e luftrave, psh Apiani ne librin THE MITHRIDATIC WARS kap 8 par. 55 shprehte keshtu:

I shall hope to persuade the Romans not to remember the injuries he has done them." Such were the terms which he offered. Archelaus at once withdrew his garrison from all the places he held and referred the other conditions to the king. In order to make use of his leisure in the meantime, Sulla marched against the Eneti, the Dardani, and the Sinti, tribes on the border of Macedonia, who were continually invading that country, and devasted their territory. In this way he exercised his soldiers and enriched them at the same time.

po ashtu e dime jo nga komentet mitologjike qe ata ishin ilire, psh tek Polybus, Histories book 2

Meanwhile the Illyrians who had occupied Phoenice, having effected a junction with Scerdilaidas, advanced with him to this place, and, taking up a position opposite to this army of relief, wished at first to give it battle. But they were embarrassed by the unfavourable nature of the ground; and just then a despatch was received from Teuta, ordering their instant return, because certain Illyrians had revolted to the Dardani


ose
tek Appiani The Civil Wars App. Book 5.8

Desiring to enrich as well as to exercise the soldiers, who were to go with him into winter quarters, he sent some of them against the Partheni, an Illyrian tribe near Epidamnus, who had been very much attached to Brutus; others against the Dardani, another Illyrian tribe, who were forever making.incursions into Macedonia.




Dhe eshte Pliny the Elder qe na tregon me saktesi ku jane keta Dardane The Natural History , CHAP. 29. (26.)—MŒSIA

Joining up to Pannonia is the province called Mœsia1, which runs, with the course of the Danube, as far as the Euxine. It commences at the confluence2 previously mentioned. In it are the Dardani, the Celegeri, the Triballi, the Timachi, the Mœsi, the Thracians, and the Scythians who border on the Euxine. The more famous among its rivers are the Margis3, which rises in the territory of the Dardani, the Pingus, the Timachus, the Œscus which rises in Mount Rhodope, and, rising in Mount Hæmus, the Utus4, the Asamus, and the Ieterus.
The breadth of Illyricum5 at its widest part is 325 miles, and its length from the river Arsia to the river Drinius 530; from the Drinius to the Promontory of Acroceraunia Agrippa states to be 175 miles, and he says that the entire circuit of the Italian and Illyrian Gulf is 1700 miles. In this Gulf, according to the limits which we have drawn, are two seas, the Ionian6 in the first part, and the Adriatic, which runs more inland and is called the Upper Sea.

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#41

Post by Zeus10 » Sun May 23, 2010 10:08 pm

Ku shtrihej Dardania saktesisht?
Tit Livi ne librin e tij The History of Rome, Book 44-31, tregon qe Malet Scordus(Malet e Sharrit) qendrojne siper Dardanise duke e mbikqyrur ate dhe kane ne jug Maqedonine dhe ne perendim Ilirine:

These two rivers meet and flow into the Oriundis, which rises in Mount Scordus and, augmented by many tributaries in its course, empties itself into the Hadriatic. Mount Scordus is quite the loftiest mountain in the country, and overlooks Dardania on the east, Macedonia on the south, and Illyria on the west. [5] Although the town was protected by its situation and defended by the whole strength of Illyria under the king himself, the Roman praetor determined to attack it.

Pra per te mbrojtur qytetin Oriundis ne Malet e Sharrit kishte dale vete mbreti i Ilirise Genti.

Ti shohim malet e Sharrit ku jane gjeografikisht bashke me nje foto te tyre:

Image

Pra ato jane prane Gostivarit dhe dikur ishin pjese e Dardanise, prej nje pershkrimi qe ska te beje me mitologjine dhe per me teper larg maleve Haemus qe ti permend.
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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#42

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Tue May 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Dardani sipas mitologjis mbahet si i linduri nga Divi.Sipas Homerit vetem ne malin ida me 100 burime ne shpatet e tij jetonin ateher.

Mali Ida gjendet me kete emer ne shume vende..por male me 100 burime vetem Tomorrin e beratit njeh historia.
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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#43

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue May 25, 2010 9:20 pm

arise6327 te lutem do te doja nje pergjigje tuajen sa i perket komenteve te mevonshme (posti im dhe postet e Alfekos)?!
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#44

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Wed May 26, 2010 7:54 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:arise6327 te lutem do te doja nje pergjigje tuajen sa i perket komenteve te mevonshme (posti im dhe postet e Alfekos)?!
alb

mos u lodh..nuk munden te na bejn dote dialog tanime.
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Re: DARDANET - FISI I FUQISHEM PELLAZG!

#45

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Ne enckiklopedite historike, Dardaneanet permenden si nje popull "asirian" nga Herodoti;
When Cyrus reached the Gyndes river on his march to Babylon, which rises in the mountains of the Matieni and flows through the Dardanean country into another river, the Tigris, that again passes the city of Opis and empties into the Red Sea—when, I say, Cyrus tried to cross the Gyndes, which was navigable there, one of his sacred white horses dashed recklessly into the river trying to get through it, but the current overwhelmed him and swept him under and away.

http://perseus.alpheios.net/hopper/text ... hapter=189
Edhe M.Aref, Matienet, i cileson si fis pellazgjik ne Azine e Vogel duke i lidhe me Matjanet ose krahinen e Matit (Ematja, Emathia). Ka mundesi qe nje popull i tille te kete qene nje nen-dege e dardaneve?
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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