"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

Moderators: Arbëri, Strokulli

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4136
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Sat May 25, 2013 8:09 pm

Autori Bizantin Michael Critobulus ( Μιχαήλ Κριτοβούλος 1410 – 1470) , ne librin e tij te trete:
"History of Mehmed the Conqueror"
kur flet per fushatat otomane ne Peloponez dhe Iliri dhe rezistencen shqiptare ndaj tyre, i identifikon keta te fundit, ne menyre te vazhdueshme me Iliret, kurse gjithe vendin e quan Iliri.
Ai pershkruan shkaterrimin total qe Mehmeti i beri vendit, si dhe nje moment qe shume Ilire(shqiptare), u hodhen nga shkembejte, per te mos rene ne dore te tyre. Perkthimi ne anglisht:

Image
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#2

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:45 pm

Konstandin Sathas eshte i pari historian qe guximshem vuri ne dukje se prania shqiptare ne Greqi daton shume me heret sesa qe pranohet zakonisht. Ne baze te disa kolonive te vendosura nga perandoret bizantin, Sathas e vendos terminus ante quem pranine shqiptare ne Qipro qysh ne shekullin e 4-te. Sathas eshte njeri prej atyre historianeve qe polemizoi ashpersisht me Fallmerayerin, kur ky i fundit kishte shkaktuar termet ne qarqet helenofile per komponenten sllave te grekeve modern. Per te kunderpeshuar elementin sllav, Sathas e te tjere si ai mendonin se sllavet fare pak kishin trazuar Greqine; ne te shumten e rasteve, ata kishin qene vecse arber, te cilet bizantinet i ngaterronin me avar. Sathas eshte pergjegjes per perkthimin ne greqishten e re te vepres se Halkokondilit. Ai i referohet nje fragmenti - qe sot mungon te Halkokondili - e ku flitet per ca koloni shqiptare ne ishullin e Qipros. Une nderkohe po shpalos disa te dhena, te cilat s'eshte e mundur te anashkalohen kur vjen puna e hershmerise shqiptare ne Greqi.

Image

Image

During the early 9th century the Emperor regained control of the Albanian coast and sent military colonists to Cyprus, which was a neutral condominium shared with the Muslims until reconquered by Byzantium in AD 964-5.

Romano-Byzantine Armies: 4th - 9th Centuries, David C. Nicolle, Angus MacBride - 1992, p. 19

Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:27 pm

Nje tjeter burim bizantin me vlere per njesimin e shqiptareve me iliret. Kesaj radhe vjen nga vete Kristobuli nga Imbrosi.

Image

rreshti i pare i shenjuar me te verdhe: "Pervec ketyre nenshtruan edhe iliret, tribalet e helenet...''

rreshti i dyte i shenjuar me te verdhe: ''...dhe ilireve qe jane nga jugu dhe shiroku deri ne gjirin e Jonit..."

Kristobuli ne menyre konsistente i quan shqiptaret ilire, perderisa per boshnjaket perdor termin ''peone'' e per sllavet 'tribale'. Disa mund te perpiqen e zbehin rendesine e nje burimi te tille me faktin se Kristobuli duke ndjekur traditen bizantine perdorte ne menyre anakronike terma te vjeter per te shenjuar popuj te rinj, qe banonin ne te njejtat territore. Por ne nje vend tjeter, teksa flet per iliret Kristobuli thote qe ata banojne qe nga koha e taulanteve dhe makaoneve barbare, dmth sheh nje vazhdimesi me banoret e vjeter, gje qe nuk e thote per tribalet (serbet) apo peonet (boshnjaket).
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#4

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:47 pm

Nga Kristobuli kemi nje nder deshmite me autentike te kohes, ku behet lidhja iliro-shqiptare, dicka qe prish te gjitha skenaret imagjinativ te fqinjeve tane, te cilet thone se ilirizmi i shqiptareve ishte nje agjende e Austro-Hungarise :mrgreen: :

Image

Sapo fillloi pranvera, sulltani u nis menjehere me nje ekspedite kundra ilireve, qe banojne prane gjirit te Jonit, ne anen e djathte ku lundron ne te, aty rreth Epidamit te vjeter. Ata ishin barbare dhe ne fillim quheshin taulante dhe mahaone. Shumica e tyre jane nomade, autonome dhe pa mbret. Prej kohesh banojne ne male te medha dhe shume te larta qe kalohen me veshtiresi.

Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4136
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#5

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:56 pm

Euphremius 1313
Ephraemius, ed. Bekker (Bonn, 1840)
Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae
Translated into Latin by Cardinal A. Mai

χρατεΐ Θεσσαλίας τε συν Αχαΐα
Μακεδονίας χαι μέρους τίνος θράχης
αίρει Λαλματίαν τι συν Έπιδάμνω
Ιλλυρίδα γην, Αλβανούς οριτρόφονς

THESSALIAM OCCUPAVIT CUM ACHAIA,
ET MACEDONIAM CUM THRACIAE PARTICULA ;
DALMATIAM ACQUISIVIT CUM EPIDAURO,
ILLYRI TRACTOS MONTICOLAS ALBANOS


....pushtoi Thesaline me Akaine,
Maqedonine dhe nje pjese te Thrakes
Morri Dalmacine bashke me Epidamnosin ,
nje toke ilire, te shqiptareve malesore.


Image

Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
Mallakastrioti
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#6

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:33 pm

Laonikos Chalkokondyles ( Λαόνικος Χαλκοκονδύλης; 1423 – 1490)

Me shqiptaret identifikoheshin si Iliret ashtu edhe Maqedonasit ne vepren e Kalkokondiles:

Laonici Chalcocondylae Atheniensis historiarum libri decem
Laonikos Chalkokondylēs,Immanuel Bekker

ιλλυριους μαλλον το γενος τουτο ειναι ή αλβανους
&
Αλβανούς γαρ έγωγε μάλλον τε τοις Μακεδόσι προστίθεσθαι αν λέγει μοι ή άλλω τινι των κατά την οικουμένην εθνών


Image
Image

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#7

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:27 pm

Evidenca te terthorta qe flasin per pranine e shqiptareve ne Greqine bizantine ne shekullin VIII (date shume kjo me e hershme sesa ajo qe jep historiografia zyrtare e emigrimit te shqiptareve drejt jugut). KJo hipoteze eshte ngritur nga K. Biris ne librin e tij ''Arvanitet - Doret e Helenizmit Modern''. Sidoqofte, filologu grek, D. Georgakas ben nje analize interesante te pranise se emrit 'geg', madje deri ne Athine. Teksti s'eshte i plote per shkak se qasja ne liber eshte e kufizuar:
  1. The nickname ΓΚΑΓΚΑΡΑΙΟΙ for 'Athenians'

The term Gagari (Γχάγχαροι) or Gagarei (Γχαγχαραῖοι) means originally in Biris' opinion nothing but Albanian 'Gegs', and the same author expounds the theory that the main...

Names from Geg exist, to be sure in modern Greek: Γχέγχης and Γχέγχας and Γχέχας, these as 'Geg', Γχέγχης in many places, Γχέγχας as surname in Epirus, pl. Γχέγχηδες, meaning originally inhabitants of the Albanian region north of the Albanian river Janusos' and the northern region is called Γχεγχαρια;
there is also an adjective γχέγχιχος and γχέχιχος; a nickname Γχέχας and a place-name ατοῦ Γχέχα...

Demetrius John Georgacas, Modern Nomenclature of Athens and Alleged Influences in Beiträge zur Namenforschung, Volumes 4-5, C. Winter., 1975, pp. 131-132  
Poashtu edhe emri ''Shkoder'' gjendet diku afer Janines:
  The ethnicon Σζορτινός is found in six passages of the Chronicle of Morea. Various explanations of the name have been suggested: one from Albanian, another from an ancient place name, a third from a Greek noun and...(p.79)

Note that in Epirus NW of Jannina there exists a place name by name Σχόδρα. It is certain that the earlier form is Scodra-Σχόδρα (cf. also Skoder and the form with the definite article Scodra...(80)

Beiträge zur Namenforschung, Volume 1, C. Winter., 1950  
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#8

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:49 pm

Pahimeri eshte nje nga autoret bizantine qe ne menyre konsistente i njejteson shqiptaret me iliret. Do te ishte nje pasuri e madhe sikur te siguronim origjinalin edhe ne greqisht e latinisht te kete pasazheve:

Image

Ky pasazh s'ka te paguar per shkak se viset ne veri te Peneut (ne veri te Thesalise) i quan toka te ilireve dhe triballeve (shqiptareve dhe sllaveve, ne kontekstin ne fjale). Poashtu eshte me rendesi te vihet ne dukje se autori ndjek nje tradite shume te vjeter qe e konsideronte Peneun si piken me veriore te Hellades, duke lene jashte saj krejt Epirin dhe Maqedonine.

Edhe pasazhi ne vijim i quan ilire shqiparet e Epirit te Ri ne luften e tyre kunder anzhuineve te Sicilise:

Image

Keto citate patjeter se duhet te jene diku ne kete liber!
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4136
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#9

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:52 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Pahimeri eshte nje nga autoret bizantine qe ne menyre konsistente i njejteson shqiptaret me iliret. Do te ishte nje pasuri e madhe sikur te siguronim origjinalin edhe ne greqisht e latinisht te kete pasazheve:

Keto citate patjeter se duhet te jene diku ne kete liber!
Georgius Pachymeres (Greek: Γεώργιος Παχυμέρης) (1242 – c. 1310), a Byzantine Greek historian, philosopher

G. Pachymeris, De Michaele et Andronico Paleologis, Bonn, 1835., Greek and Latin text.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=x9QFAAA ... &q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/demichaeleetand01bekkgoog
Pjese nga libri:
Image

G. Pachymeres, Hierocles and Philagrios, Declamationes XIII, Philogelos.
http://books.google.gr/books?id=iJQ-AAA ... &q&f=false
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
bardus
Star Member
Star Member
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:44 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#10

Post by bardus » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:40 pm

Zeus10 wrote:
ALBPelasgian wrote:Pahimeri eshte nje nga autoret bizantine qe ne menyre konsistente i njejteson shqiptaret me iliret. Do te ishte nje pasuri e madhe sikur te siguronim origjinalin edhe ne greqisht e latinisht te kete pasazheve:

Keto citate patjeter se duhet te jene diku ne kete liber!
Georgius Pachymeres (Greek: Γεώργιος Παχυμέρης) (1242 – c. 1310), a Byzantine Greek historian, philosopher

G. Pachymeris, De Michaele et Andronico Paleologis, Bonn, 1835., Greek and Latin text.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=x9QFAAA ... &q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/demichaeleetand01bekkgoog
Pjese nga libri:
Image

G. Pachymeres, Hierocles and Philagrios, Declamationes XIII, Philogelos.
http://books.google.gr/books?id=iJQ-AAA ... &q&f=false

Zeus, ne fund te paragrafit,Pachymeris thote qe Albanitet jane ata Albanet qe permend Ptolemeu,

pjese e Maqedonise se Lashte (Emathia shen. im),pra ben lidhjen ure nga

Ptolemeu Alban....(afro 1000 vjet) ....> Albanite ne 1242 – c. 1310 te Pachymeres.


Ideja eshte se kemi te bejme me te njejtin popull ALBAN ,ALBANENSES , nga Ptolemeu deri tek Pachymeres dhe se ky etnonym
ka ekzistuar shume heret,sipas Bogdanit qe ne shek.11 b.c. kur u formua Shteti i Arberit.

User avatar
bardus
Star Member
Star Member
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:44 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#11

Post by bardus » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:42 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Pahimeri eshte nje nga autoret bizantine qe ne menyre konsistente i njejteson shqiptaret me iliret. Do te ishte nje pasuri e madhe sikur te siguronim origjinalin edhe ne greqisht e latinisht te kete pasazheve:

Image

Ky pasazh s'ka te paguar per shkak se viset ne veri te Peneut (ne veri te Thesalise) i quan toka te ilireve dhe triballeve (shqiptareve dhe sllaveve, ne kontekstin ne fjale). Poashtu eshte me rendesi te vihet ne dukje se autori ndjek nje tradite shume te vjeter qe e konsideronte Peneun si piken me veriore te Hellades, duke lene jashte saj krejt Epirin dhe Maqedonine.

Edhe pasazhi ne vijim i quan ilire shqiparet e Epirit te Ri ne luften e tyre kunder anzhuineve te Sicilise:

Image

Keto citate patjeter se duhet te jene diku ne kete liber!

Alb,ja faqja origjinale e asaj qe solle:

Image

http://books.google.com/books?id=-ZJEAA ... &q&f=false faqe 115

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4136
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#12

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:09 pm

bardus wrote:
Zeus10 wrote:

Zeus, ne fund te paragrafit,Pachymeris thote qe Albanitet jane ata Albanet qe permend Ptolemeu,

pjese e Maqedonise se Lashte (Emathia shen. im),pra ben lidhjen ure nga

Ptolemeu Alban....(afro 1000 vjet) ....> Albanite ne 1242 – c. 1310 te Pachymeres.


Ideja eshte se kemi te bejme me te njejtin popull ALBAN ,ALBANENSES , nga Ptolemeu deri tek Pachymeres dhe se ky etnonym
ka ekzistuar shume heret,sipas Bogdanit qe ne shek.11 b.c. kur u formua Shteti i Arberit.
Ai mund te jete nje koment i perkthyesit, brenda fjalorit te shpjegimit te emrave. Ajo qe permend Pahymeri, eshte kjo:

Image

qe nese ne romaishtjen e Lindjes eshte Αλβανοι ne romaishten e Perendimit eshte Albanitae.


ex eo multi campo messuere segetem auream ligonibus usi vice falcium Albanitae caeterique circum habitantes, demumque cum praeda recedentes plane desertam reliquerunt illani olim urbem ubi fueiit signis nunc tantuin exilibus monstrantem in urbibus numeratam dicis tantum causa et nomine tenus cum modo urbs non sit at eius antistes Nicetas unus repertorum inter ruinas et servatus superstes ille quidem caeterum in multis cicatricibus reliquis ex plagis quas illapsu saxorum tignorumque acceperat, luculenta vestigia mirabiliter vitali periculi circumferens, memoria ipsus cladis, quam viderat et senserat atrociorem opinione omni perculsus adeo est ut locum fugerit nec sustinuerit insistere sepulcro suae metropolis, quam orbatam civibus corona moenium et aedificiorum elegantium omni ornatu, opibus quoque spoliatam, haec ad extremum sui pastoris secessio reliquit plane desolatam.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#13

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:06 am

Shume mire. Ja i kompletova dy pjeset (greqsisht dhe latinisht) dhe jane te gatshme per shfyrtezim:

Image

Image
  Τότε τοίνυν τοῖς άδελφοῖς έγχειρίσυς τά δυσιχά, τῶ μέν δεσπότη 'Ιωύννη τάς ύνατολιχύς παραδούς δυνάμεις συνάμα τῶ Σχυθιχῶ τά χατά γῆς προσέταττε μετιέναι, χαί τύ τῶν 'Ιλλυριῶν μεωέπειν χαί Τριβαλλῶν, χαί τά τοῦ Πηνειοῦ πέραν, τήν ίδίως 'Ελλάδα λεγομένην, χατατρέχειν, τῶ δεσπότη Μιχαήλ πολεμοῦντα.  
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#14

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:57 pm

Ja e solla te plote letren e Zebedee ku banoret e fushes se Shkodres i quan here taulante e here ilire.

Image

Image

A Georges Zebedee (et non Manuel), (fin 1466-1467)

Burimi: Bibliothèque des Écoles françaises d'Athènes et de Rome (1877)
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Iliret ose shqiptaret, ne kronikat bizantine.

#15

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:53 am

Nje deshmi me rendesi per historine arberore eshte edhe kronika e bizantinit, Jan Kanabutzes i cili ne prag te shkaterrimit te Perandorise Romeje nga Latinet ne vitin 1204, i shkruen zoterve te rinj te Konstandinopojes si vijon:

Image

Kjo do te thote qe identiteti fetar ne mesjete ishte evaziv sepse pertej vernikut te perbashkesise ortodokse shtriheshin identitete te vecanta etno-gjuhesore. Pra, per bizantinin ne fjale ndonese ne territoret e humbura kishin pasur καὶ μίαν πίστιν (nje besim, dmth ritin ortodoks) dhe te njejtin pagezim καὶ ἕν βάπτισμα, shqiptaret bashke me disa popuj te tjere mbaheshin per βαρβάρους (barbarë), meqe nuk kishin te njejte me bizantinet etninë, gjuhen, rregullimin politik dhe edukimin (ἀλλὰ νοεῖται διὰ τὸ γένος καὶ τὴν γλῶτταν καὶ τὴν τάξιν τῆς πολιτείας καὶ τὴν παίδευσιν).
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

Post Reply

Return to “Historia e Shqiperise”