"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:32 pm

Nje nga tezat qe kam parashtruar ne kete forum, por dhe me gjere, eshte qe shqiptaret jane pasardhe se albaneve -perendimore, pra popujve qe fillonin prej Portugalise se sotme dhe vazhdonin deri ne kufij te panjohur, ata qe themeluan Romen dhe qe permenden me emrin Albanenses. Ata e quanin veten Arber dhe gjuha e tyre eshte ajo qe u perdor per te krijuar latinishten. Jo me kot disa vende famoze, ku kane banuar ata, therriten ne menyren qe pershtatet me gjuhen shqipe:
Albano Laziale (IPA: [alˈbaːno latˈtsjaːle],[1] Albanum in Latin, Arbanassi in Roman dialect) is a comune in the province of Rome, on the Alban Hills, in Latium, central Italy. It is also a suburb of Rome, which is 25 km distant. It is bounded by other communes of Castel Gandolfo, Rocca di Papa, Ariccia and Ardea. Located in the Castelli Romani area of Lazio. It is sometimes known simply as Albano.
Deshiroj ta zgjerojme kete diskutim sepse eshte shume interesant.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

#2

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:52 pm

Termi Albanoi, eshte perdorur nga autoret antike dhe nga ata Mesjetare, por studjuesit jane te prirur qe te perjashtojne lidhjen e te dyve me te njejtin subject: shqiptaret e sotem:

Dionisi i Halikarnasit:
Roman Antiquities 3.8.5
[5] τούτων δὴ τῶν διαλλαγῶν ἐμοὶ μὲν δοκεῖ χρῆναι τὰς εὐπρεπεστέρας καὶ μεγαλοψυχοτέρας ἡμᾶς ἑλέσθαι καὶ γνώμην θέσθαι περὶ μηδενὸς ἡμᾶς ἀλλήλοις μνησικακεῖν, σὺ δ᾽ εἰ μὴ βούλει διαλλάττεσθαι τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον, ὦ Τύλλε, ἀλλὰ καὶ διδόναι δίκας καὶ λαμβάνειν ἀξιοῖς τοὺς ἐν ταῖς αἰτίαις παρ᾽ ἀλλήλων, ἕτοιμοι καὶ ταῦτα ποιεῖν εἰσιν Ἀλβανοὶ τὰ κοινὰ ἔχθη προκαταλυσάμενοι. εἰ δέ τινας ἔχεις παρὰ ταύτας λέγειν ἑτέρας εἴτε καλλίους διαλλαγὰς εἴτε δικαιοτέρας, οὐκ ἂν φθάνοις φέρων εἰς μέσον καὶ πολλήν σοι χάριν εἴσομαι.Of these two methods of reconciliation, now, it is my opinion that we ought to choose the one which is the more honourable and magnanimous, and we ought to pass a decree of general amnesty. However, if you, Tullius, do not wish a reconciliation of this kind, but prefer that the accusers and the accused should mutually give and receive satisfaction, the Albans are also ready to do this, after first settling our mutual hatreds. And if, besides this, you have any other method to suggest which is either more honourable or more just, you cannot lay it before us too soon, and for doing so I shall be greatly obliged to you."
3.9.2
[2] πρότεροι δὲ πρεσβεύεσθαι περὶ διαλλαγῶν [p. 284] οὐκ ἠξιοῦμεν, ἐπείπερ οὐδ᾽ ἤρξαμεν αὐτοὶ πρότεροι τοῦ πολέμου, ἄρξαντας δὲ ἠμυνάμεθα. ἀποτιθεμένων δὲ ὑμῶν τὰ ὅπλα δεχόμεθα τὰς προκλήσεις ἄσμενοι καὶ περὶ διαλλαγῶν οὐδὲν ἀκριβολογούμεθα, ἀλλὰ τὰς κρατίστας τε καὶ μεγαλοψυχοτάτας δεχόμεθα πᾶν ἀδίκημα καὶ πᾶν ἁμάρτημα τῆς Ἀλβανῶν πόλεως ἀφιέντες, εἰ δὴ καὶ κοινὰ χρὴ καλεῖν πόλεως ἁμαρτήματα, ὧν ὁ στρατηγὸς ὑμῶν Κλοίλιος αἴτιος ἦν, ὃς ὑπὲρ ἀμφοτέρων ἡμῶν οὐ μεμπτὰς τέτικε δίκας τοῖς θεοῖς.yet we did not consider it fitting that we should be the first to send ambassadors to propose an accommodation, since we had not been p35the first to begin the war, but had merely defended ourselves against those who had begun it. But once you are ready to lay down your arms, we will gladly receive your proposal, and will not scrutinize too closely the terms of the reconciliation, but will accept those that are the best and the most magnanimous, forgiving every injury and offence we have received from the city of Alba — if, indeed, those deserve to be called public offences of the city for which your general Cluilius was responsible, and has paid no mean penalty to the gods for the wrongs he did us both.
3.9.4
εἰ παύσαιντο μὲν Ἀλβανοὶ φθονοῦντες Ῥωμαίοις ἐφ᾽ οἷς ἔχουσιν ἀγαθοῖς, οὐκ ἄνευ μεγάλων κινδύνων καὶ πόνων πολλῶν αὐτὰ κτησάμενοι, ῾οὐθὲν γοῦν πεπονθότες ὑφ᾽ ἡμῶν οὔτε μεῖζον οὔτε ἔλαττον κακὸν διὰ τοῦτο μισεῖτε ἡμᾶς, ὅτι [p. 285] δοκοῦμεν ἄμεινον ὑμῶν πράττειν᾽ παύσαιντο δὲ Ῥωμαῖοι δἰ ὑποψίας ἔχοντες Ἀλβανοὺς ὡς ἐπιβουλεύοντας ἀεί σφισι καὶ φυλαττόμενοι καθάπερ ἐχθρούς: οὐ γὰρ ἂν γένοιτο βεβαίως φίλος τῷ μισοῦντι οὐδείςIf, on the one hand, the Albans would cease to envy the Romans the advantages they possess, advantages which were acquired not without great perils and many hardships (in any case you have suffered no injury at our hands, great or slight, but you hate us for this reason alone, that we seem to be better than you); and if, on the other hand, the Romans would cease to suspect the Albans of always plotting against them and would cease to be on their guard against them as against enemies (for no one can be a firm friend to one who distrusts him).
3.10.6
[6] ταῦτα ἡμᾶς ἑκόντας δέχεσθαι. τελευταῖός μοι λόγος ἐστίν, ὅτι τῆς Ἀλβανῶν πόλεως οὐθὲν ἔτι παρακινεῖ μέρος τοῦ πολιτεύματος ὀκτωκαιδεκάτην ἤδη γενεὰν οἰκουμένης καὶ πάντα ἐν κόσμῳ τὰ συνήθη καὶ πάτρια ἐπιτελούσης, ἡ δ᾽ ὑμετέρα πόλις ἀδιακόσμητός ἐστιν ἔτι καὶ ἀδιάτακτος, ἅτε νεόκτιστος οὖσα καὶ ἐκ πολλῶν συμφορητὸς ἐθνῶν, ᾗ μακρῶν δεῖ χρόνων καὶ παθημάτων παντοδαπῶν, ἵνα καταρτισθῇ καὶ παύσηται ταραττομένη καὶ στασιάζουσα [p. 289] ὥσπερ νῦν. ἅπαντες δ᾽ ἂν εἴποιεν ὅτι δεῖ τὰ καθεστηκότα τῶν ταραττομένων καὶ τὰ πεπειραμένα τῶν ἀδοκιμάστων καὶ τὰ ὑγιαίνοντα τῶν νοσούντων ἄρχειν: οἷς ὑμεῖς τἀναντία ἀξιοῦντες οὐκ ὀρθῶς ποιεῖτε.My last argument is this: The city of Alba has so far made no alteration in any part of its constitution, though it is already the eighteenth generation that it has been inhabited, but continues to observe in due form all its customs and traditions; whereas your city is still without order and discipline, due to its being newly founded and a conglomeration of many race, and it will require long ages and manifold turns of fortune in order to be regulated and freed from those troubles and dissensions with which it is now agitated. But all will agree that order ought to rule over confusion, experience over inexperience, and health over sickness; and you do wrong in demanding the reverse."
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

#3

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:22 pm

2-3 elemente shume te rendesishem, per te kuptuar etnicitetin e te "lashteve" e jep ky paragraph:

3.11.1-4
τοιαῦτα τοῦ Φουφεττίου λέξαντος παραλαβὼν ὁ Τύλλος τὸν λόγον εἶπε: τὸ μὲν ἐκ φύσεως καὶ προγόνων ἀρετῆς δίκαιον, ὦ Φουφέττιε καὶ ὑμεῖς ἄνδρες Ἀλβανοί, κοινὸν ἀμφοτέροις ἡμῖν: τοὺς αὐτοὺς γὰρ εὐχόμεθα προγόνους ἑκάτεροι, ὥστε οὐδὲν δεῖ τούτου χάριν οὔτε πλέον ἡμῶν ἔχειν τοὺς ἑτέρους οὔτ᾽ ἔλαττον. τὸ δὲ ἄρχειν ἐκ παντὸς τῶν ἀποικιῶν τὰς μητροπόλεις ὡς ἀναγκαῖόν τι φύσεως νόμιμον οὔτε ἀληθὲς οὔτε δίκαιον ἠξιοῦτο ὑφ᾽ ὑμῶν: [2] πολλά γέ τοι φῦλά ἐστιν ἀνθρώπων, παρ᾽ οἷς αἱ μητροπόλεις οὐκ ἄρχουσιν ἀλλ᾽ ὑποτάττονται ταῖς ἀποικίαις. μέγιστον δὲ καὶ φανερώτατον τοῦ λόγου τοῦδε παράδειγμα ἡ Σπαρτιατῶν πόλις οὐ τῶν ἄλλων μόνον ἄρχειν ἀξιοῦσα Ἑλλήνων, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῦ Δωρικοῦ γένους ὅθεν ἀπῳκίσθη. καὶ τί δεῖ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων λέγειν; αὐτοὶ γὰρ ὑμεῖς οἱ τὴν ἡμετέραν πόλιν ἀποικίσαντες Λαουϊνιατῶν ἐστε ἄποικοι.3] εἰ δὴ φύσεώς ἐστι νόμος ἄρχειν τῆς ἀποικίας τὴν μητρόπολιν, οὐκ ἂν φθάνοιεν ἀμφοτέροις ἡμῖν Λαουϊνιᾶται τὰ δίκαια τάττοντες; πρὸς μὲν δὴ τὸ πρῶτον ὑμῶν δικαίωμα καὶ πλείστην ἔχον εὐπροσωπίαν [p. 290] ταῦθ᾽ ἱκανά: ἐπειδὴ δὲ καὶ τοὺς βίους τῶν πόλεων ἀντιπαρεξετάζειν ἀλλήλοις ἐπεχείρεις, ὦ Φουφέττιε, λέγων ὅτι τὸ μὲν Ἀλβανῶν εὐγενὲς ὅμοιον ἀεὶ διαμένει, τὸ δ᾽ ἡμέτερον ἐξέφθαρται ταῖς ἐπιμιξίαις τοῦ ἀλλοφύλου, καὶ οὐκ ἠξίους ἄρχειν τῶν γνησίων τοὺς νόθους οὐδὲ τῶν αὐθιγενῶν τοὺς ἐπήλυδας, μάθε καὶ κατὰ τοῦτο ἁμαρτάνων μάλιστα τὸ δικαίωμα. [4] ἡμεῖς γὰρ τοσούτου δέομεν αἰσχύνεσθαι κοινὴν ἀναδείξαντες τὴν πόλιν τοῖς βουλομένοις, ὥστε καὶ σεμνυνόμεθα ἐπὶ τούτῳ μάλιστα τῷ ἔργῳ, οὐκ αὐτοὶ τοῦ ζήλου τοῦδε ἄρξαντες, παρὰ δὲ τῆς Ἀθηναίων πόλεως τὸ παράδειγμα λαβόντες, ἧς μέγιστον κλέος ἐν Ἕλλησίν ἐστι, καὶ διὰ τοῦτο οὐχ ἥκιστα εἰ μὴ καὶAfter Fufetius had thus spoken, Tullius answered and said: "The right which is derived from Nature and the virtue of one's ancestors, Fufetius and ye men of Alba, is common to us both; for we both boast the same ancestors, so that on this score neither of use ought to have any advantage or suffer any disadvantage. But as to your claim that by a kind of necessary law of Nature mother-cities should invariably rule over their colonies, it is neither true nor just. 2 Indeed, there are many races of mankind among which the mother-cities do not rule over their colonies but are subject to them. The greatest and the most conspicuous instance of this is the Spartan state, which claims the right not only to rule over the other Greeks but even over the Doric nation, of which she is a colony. But why should I mention the others? For you who colonized our city are yourself a colony of the Lavinians. 3 If, therefore, it is a law of Nature that the mother-city should rule over its colony, would not the Lavinians be the first to issue their just orders to both of us? To your first claim, then, and the one which carries with it the most specious appearance, this is a sufficient answer. But since you also undertook to compare the ways of life of the two cities, Fufetius, asserting that the nobility of the Albans has always remained the same while ours has been 'corrupted' by the various admixtures of foreigners, and demanded that the base-born should not rule over the well-born nor p47newcomers over the native-born, know, then, that in making this claim, too, you are greatly mistaken. 4 For we are so far from being ashamed of having made the privileges of our city free to all who desired them that we even take the greatest pride in this course; moreover, we are not the originators of this admirable practice, but took the example from the city of Athens, which enjoys the greatest reputation among the Greeks, due in no small measure, if indeed not chiefly, to this very policy.
Romanet pranojne te njejten origjine me Albanet
Romanet pranojne qe ALbanet nuk e perzien gjakun me te tjere, megjithese kishin 18 breza qe jetonin atje
Dorianet(me te pastrit mes grekeve prej te cileve spartanet sundonjesit e grekeve te tjere) jane TE ARDHUR ne "Hellas", pra ata nuk jane AUTOKTONE.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

#4

Post by arberor » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:16 pm

Alba longa from italian wikipedia

g translate: The city of Alba Longa (even in the spelling Albalonga) was an ancient town of Latium, who was head of the Confederation of Latin peoples (populi albenses) [1]

Popoli albensi
https://translate.google.no/translate?s ... es&act=url


Werid wikipedia do not show this on English wikpedia site, only in Italian, french and Portuguese.

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Re: Origjina perendimore e shqiptareve.

#5

Post by Zeus10 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:23 am

Para latineve qe ja dedikonin origjinen e tyre albaneve kane jetuar etrusket dhe nje nga qytetet e tyre ata e quanin Arbanum:
Etruscan villages (Fanum, Arbanum, Vetulonia, Longula) whose union gave birth to Viterbo.
Image

Te kater emrat e vendeve mund ti perafrojme me kuptime/emra vendesh shqip si Fani, vetulonia(vetull), longula(ngulim) dhe natyrisht Arbanum qe eshte termi latin per Arberine.

Nuk duhet harruar gjithashtu, qe ka egzistuar nje dioqeze e vjeter(monasteria et ecclesie grece et latine), qe mendohet se ka qene Kruja me emrin Arbanum, qe eshte ndoshta ajo qe permend Ana Komnena.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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