"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:42 pm

Iliret, jane nje popull emri i te cileve permendet vecse ne periudhat e hershme te historise se njohur. Por ne raste te rralla emri i tyre, del papritur ne skene dhe ne kohet moderne, sic ne rrefimin e Samson Cerfbeer de Médelsheim , ne vepren e tij:
‘Mémoires sur la Grèce et l’Albanie pendant le gouvernement d’Ali-Pacha’, prej te cilit shkeputem paragrafin e meposhtem:

There are several villages in Albania that are inhabited by foreigners, who are somewhat less savage than the natives. Each of these villages is inhabited by only one ethnic group. For instance, one finds villages of Illyrians, Serbs, Vlachs, Bulgarians, Greeks and Turks. Each of these colonies conserves its own language and even retains something of its native costumes and primitive customs. The men in these villages normally learn Albanian because they have contacts and need it for trade. But the women only speak their mother tongue according to the country from which the colony arrived. Although I have not spent much time in this country studying the physiognomy of these peoples, I can easily distinguish an Illyrian, a Bulgarian, a Vlach or a Greek from a pure Albanian because the latter have particular physical characteristics.

On trouve en Albanie plusieurs villages peuplés d étrangers qui sont un peu moins sauvages que les indigènes Chacun de ces endroits n est habité que par des individus d une même nation c est ainsi qu on trouve des villages Illyriens Serviens Wallakes Bulgares Grecs et Turcs Chacune de ces diverses espèces de colonies conserve son idiôme originaire et même une partie de son costume et de ses usages primitifs Les hommes qui les composent apprennent ordinairement la langue albanaise par la fréquentation et le besoin du commerce mais les femmes ne parlent que leur langue maternelle selon les pays d où leur colonie est arrivée Pour peu que l on ait séjourné dans ce pays et que l on se soit occupé à observer les physionomies nationales on pourra distinguer aisément un Illyrien un Bulgare un Wallak ou un Grec d avec un Albanais de race car ceux ci ont des particularités caractéristiques dans leur physique qui empêchent de s y méprendre

ku ai permend racen misterioze te ilireve, qe ai e quan te huaj per shqiptaret dhe per cudine tone, jo vetem e etiketon, por eshte ne gjendje dhe te na thote ndryshimet fizike, midis tyre dhe shqiptareve. Kush jane keta ilire te perhumbur nga historia, qe autori me shume lehtesi, shume vone ne shekullin e 19-te qenka ne gjendje ti dalloje mes kombeve modern?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#2

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:35 pm

Ka te ngjare, qe ata te jene kroate apo boshnjake, sepse ne nje segment kohor diku mes Mesjetes dhe Rilindjes, ata e quajten veten ilire.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:32 pm

'Ilire' perdorej gjeresisht nga disa shkrimtare humaniste e bizantine per te shenjuar sllavet e viseve te Dalmacise e dicka me rralle edhe atyre te brendshme (p.sh Laonik Halkokondili i quan ilire boshnjaket). Nje kohe 'ilire' u quajten sllavet e Provincave Ilirike, entitete keto qe u krijuan nga Bonaparti. Me pas, monopoli i ketij termi do te zgjatej edhe per disa dekada nga Levizja Pan-Ilirike, nje grupim nacionalist brenda sllaveve qe jetonin ne Perandorine Habsburge e qe gjakonin te diferencoheshin nga subjektet e tjera habsburge. Por diku ne nje nga temat ne foum, qysh ne krye te heres, pata postuar nje prej ketyre shkrimtareve te Levizjes Pan-Ilirike, i cili duke kundershtuar keqperdorimin e ketij termi anakronik duke e barazuar me sllavet, korrekton se pasardhesit e atyre ilireve te vjeter gjenden vetem tek shqiptaret.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#4

Post by rrëqebull » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:36 pm

Tek ky fragment i një libri të 1985-s, përdoret në kuptimin 'kroat' nga botusi i "studimeve sllave të Kalifornisë", duke dëshmuar se ky gabim është bërë deri tani vonë [me siguri i përcjellë që nga koha e lëvizjes sllavojugore të vetëquajtur "pan-ilirike" që ka cekur ALBPelasgiani].

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#5

Post by TeuAL » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:58 am

Lexova edhe per vendin tone ne librin e juristit Italian Andrea Alciati "Emblematum Liber", botim i vitit 1531. Nqse mundesohet ngjitja e imazheve mund te ilustroja sa thashe.
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Alc ... pe%3Atexts

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#6

Post by Mendi » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:43 pm

TeuAL wrote:Lexova edhe per vendin tone ne librin e juristit Italian Andrea Alciati "Emblematum Liber", botim i vitit 1531. Nqse mundesohet ngjitja e imazheve mund te ilustroja sa thashe.
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Alc ... pe%3Atexts
Do mundeshit me na tregu ku permendet vendi yne atje? Cilin imazh do deshironit te bashkengjitnit?

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#7

Post by TeuAL » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:58 am

Mendi wrote:
TeuAL wrote:Lexova edhe per vendin tone ne librin e juristit Italian Andrea Alciati "Emblematum Liber", botim i vitit 1531. Nqse mundesohet ngjitja e imazheve mund te ilustroja sa thashe.
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Alc ... pe%3Atexts
Do mundeshit me na tregu ku permendet vendi yne atje? Cilin imazh do deshironit te bashkengjitnit?
Ky libri qe po citoj eshte nga lista ne adresen www te lartepermendur:

http://archive.org/details/notitiavtraqvecv00gele

ose
http://archive.org/stream/notitiavtraqv ... 3/mode/2up

Qe ne fillim, ne faqen nr.3, thote(citoj): "ILLYRICI PROVINCIARUM VTRIQVE IMPERIO cvm Romano tvm Constantinopolitano . . . descriptio". Po ketu flitet per Dardanine, Epirin, Dalmacine etj.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Titulli:
---------
Notitia vtraqve cvm orientis tvm occidentis vltra Arcadii Honoriiqve Cæsarvm tempora, illustre uetustatis monumentum, imò thesaurus prorsum incomparabilis : Præcedit aute D. Andreæ Alciati libellus, De magistratib. ciuilibusq; ac militaribus officijs, partim ex hac ipsa Notitia, partim aliunde desumptus : cvi succedit Descriptio urbis Romæ, quæ sub titulo Pub. Victoris circumfertur : & altera urbis Constantinopolitanæ incerto autore, nunquã antehac typis excusa, imperialium uidelicet ac primariaru sedium utriusq reipub : svbiungitur Notitiis uetustus liber De rebvs bellicis ad Theodosium Aug & filios eius Arcadium atq; Honorium, ut uidetur, scriptus incerto autore : item, ne quid de antiquo exemplari omitteretur, Disputatio Adriani Aug. & Epicteti philosophi (1552)

Te dhena:
------------
Author: Gelen, Sigmund, 1497-1554; Schnitt, Konrad, d. 1541; Alciati, Andrea, 1492-1550. De magistratibus civilibusque & militaribus officiis

Subject: Roman provinces
Publisher: Basileae : [Apvd Hieronymvm Frobenivm, et Nicolavm Episcopivm]
Pages: 224
Language: Latin
Call number: 264796
Digitizing sponsor: Getty Research Institute
Book contributor: Getty Research Institute
Collection: getty; americana
Notes: No page numbers. No table of contents.

-------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#8

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:13 pm

Aty flitet thjesht per provincen romane te Illyricum:

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ne kuadrin e Romes se Lindjes dhe Perendimit.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#9

Post by TeuAL » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:08 am

Zeus10 wrote:Aty flitet thjesht per provincen romane te Illyricum:
ne kuadrin e Romes se Lindjes dhe Perendimit.
Ne fletet nr. 172-173, tek "Dux Pannonia", permenden dy emra vendesh "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" dhe jepen edhe skica te fortesave(?) ne keto vende. Lind pyetja, per cilat vende(qytete) "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" behet fjale ?
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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#10

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:30 pm

TeuAL wrote:
Zeus10 wrote:Aty flitet thjesht per provincen romane te Illyricum:
ne kuadrin e Romes se Lindjes dhe Perendimit.
Ne fletet nr. 172-173, tek "Dux Pannonia", permenden dy emra vendesh "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" dhe jepen edhe skica te fortesave(?) ne keto vende. Lind pyetja, per cilat vende(qytete) "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" behet fjale ?
Emri Teuta, sipas disa studjuesve, ngjason me emrat gjermanike, psh teutonet(nje fis gjermanik). Nderkohe, emri i qytetit Teuti-borg-us eshte tipik i stilit emertues gjermanik *****-burg(qytet). Persa I perket Alban, ky term eshte shume popullor ne Europe dhe per gjera qe nuk kane lidhje me shqiptaret, megjithese une mendoj qe albanët e krahut lindor te Romes "se lashte" jane pikerisht parardhesit tane ndoshta te perzier me nje popullsi me te vjeter autoktone, qe po zgjedh ti quaj epirotet.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Permendja e ilireve ne kohet moderne

#11

Post by TeuAL » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:12 pm

Zeus10 wrote:
TeuAL wrote:
Zeus10 wrote:Aty flitet thjesht per provincen romane te Illyricum:
ne kuadrin e Romes se Lindjes dhe Perendimit.
Ne fletet nr. 172-173, tek "Dux Pannonia", permenden dy emra vendesh "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" dhe jepen edhe skica te fortesave(?) ne keto vende. Lind pyetja, per cilat vende(qytete) "ALBANO & TEUTIBORGUS" behet fjale ?
Emri Teuta, sipas disa studjuesve, ngjason me emrat gjermanike, psh teutonet(nje fis gjermanik). Nderkohe, emri i qytetit Teuti-borg-us eshte tipik i stilit emertues gjermanik *****-burg(qytet). Persa I perket Alban, ky term eshte shume popullor ne Europe dhe per gjera qe nuk kane lidhje me shqiptaret, megjithese une mendoj qe albanët e krahut lindor te Romes "se lashte" jane pikerisht parardhesit tane ndoshta te perzier me nje popullsi me te vjeter autoktone, qe po zgjedh ti quaj epirotet.
Faleminderit per sqarimet!

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