"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:20 pm

Emri i Hyllos, eshte ndoshta nje nga me te rendesishmit per te studjuar, sepse emri i tij, eshte i lidhur me legjendat dhe mitet me te hershme, qe dhe sikur te jene te tilla, jane pervetsuar nga fqinjet tane greket dhe jane shpallur si histori.

Arsyeja, qe pse ky emer eshte i rendesishem, eshte se ai lidhet me dy emra te rendesishem te lashtesise, Iliret dhe Dorianet. Keta te fundit, sipas shume shkruesve te lashte, jane as me pak dhe as me shume, por vete helenët, fama e te cileve shfrytezohet sot nga shteti grek politikisht, ne nje menyre aspak te ndershme.

Emri i ketij heroi mitologjik, ishte Ὕλλος ne greqisht, Hyllus ne anglisht, apo Yll-os ne shqip. Varianti tjerer i emrit eshte Ὕλᾱς--Hyllas(eng)--Yllas(shqip)

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Emri i tij, tingellon shume i njohur per ne shqiptaret: 'YLL' nje emer qe personifikon bukurine e yjeve dhe ju vendoset djemve, si nje urim per ti ngjare kesaj bukurie hyjnore.
Sipas nje varianti mitologjik, Yllusi apo Yllasi ishte shok i Herkulit, por sipas shumices dermuese te shkruesve te lashte, ai ishte i biri i Herkulit dhe i Melites:
Ovid--(Metamorphoses, 9.279)
Pseudoskylax--Περίπλους τῆς θαλάσσης τῆς οἰκουμένης Εὐρώπης καὶ Ἀσίας καὶ Λιβύης 22
SCYMNUS OF CHIOS-PERIEGESIS 24
etj

Pothuajse te gjithe autoret e lashte, bien dakort, qe ky hero, ishte ilir, patriarku dhe mbreti i tyre dhe njekohosisht mbreti i fisit me te famshem te ilireve Byllioneve apo Hyllionet, te cilet moren dhe emrin prej tij.

Ἰλλυριοί.
Μετὰ δὲ Λιβυρνούς εἰσιν Ἰλλυριοὶ ἔθνος, καὶ παροικοῦσιν οἱ Ἰλλυριοὶ παρὰ θάλατταν μέχρι Χαονίας τῆς κατὰ Κέρκυραν τὴν Ἀλκινόου νῆσον. Καὶ πόλις ἐστὶν Ἑλληνὶς ἐνταῦθα, ἧι ὄνομα Ἡράκλεια, καὶ λιμήν. Εἰσὶ δὲ καὶ οἱ λωτοφάγοι καλούμενοι βάρβαροι οἵδε· Ἱεραστάμναι, Βουλινοὶ (Ὑλλινοί)· Βουλινῶν ὁμοτέρμονες Ὕλλοι. Οὗτοι δέ φασιν Ὕλλον τὸν Ἡρακλέους αὐτοὺς κατοικίσαι· εἰσὶ δὲ βάρβαροι. Κατοικοῦσι δὲ χερρόνησον ὀλίγωι ἐλάσσω τῆς Πελοποννήσου. Ἀπὸ δὲ <Χ>ερρονήσου <Σίσσα νῆσος> παρα<τείνει ὡ>ς τ<αι>νίον ὀρθόν· ταύτην παροικοῦσι Βουλινοί. Βουλινοὶ δ᾽ εἰσὶν ἔθνος Ἰλλυρικόν

Por njekohosisht ne mitologji, ai shpallet dhe si i biri Theiodamas, mbretit te Dryopeve. Dryopet ( Δρύοπες), ishin nje fis, qe sipas Herodotit, kishin banuar dikur ne nje vend, qe quhej Dryopis (Δρυοπίς) dhe me vone Doris, prej nga moren emrin Doriane.
Ishin keta Doriane, me ne krye Yllasin, qe zbriten ne Peloponez dhe luftuan kunder pellazgeve/danajve, duke krijuar racen Helene, qe rrodhi pikerisht prej Yllosit dhe ndoshta morri vete emrin prej tij.

υπό των Πελαγόνων και Λιβυρνών κατέχεται
Τούτοις συνάπτον δ έστι Βουλινών εθνος
έξης δε μεγάλη χερρόνησος Υλλιχή
προς την Πελοπόννησόν τι έξισουμένη
Πόλεις δ έν αυτή φασι πέντε και δέκα
Υλλους κατοιχεϊν οντας Έλληνας γένει
τόν Ηρακλέους γάρ Υλλον οίκιβτην λαβείν

vijon
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#2

Post by Elias » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:49 pm

Dear Albanian brother and reader,

Being a Greek of an ancient Arvanitan stock myself, I do not consider modern Albanians to be the enemies of Greece either. Moreover, our mislead Illyrian Greek brothers in the north today -that is, the Albanians of modern times, should return to Hellenism and to our common ancient Greek historic roots and traditions. Illyrios, was indeed the son of the Greek Theban King Kadmus and of the also Greek Princess Armonia, which used to be our common ancestors in past and in present times.

Hyllas, one of the many Greek children of Hercules, was an Illyrian King to the old Illyrian province of the ancient Greek Dalmatia. As a matter of fact, he was one of the many Illyrian Kings of the Bullinoi tribe. The same name Hyllas (or Hyllos or simply Yllas) we find among the Dorian Spartans of the same period, which is said to have once migrated to Lakonia and Sparta from the ancient Greek land, which used to be to the north of Epirus, and is quite probably closer to the land of the Illyrian Greeks, somewhere nearby in modern day Montenegro and the Dalmatian Coast.

The old Dorian and Illyrian Greek name Hyllas (or Yllas) means ‘the Sun or the signing star’ in ancient Greek and is coded in the Greek name Helios (i.e. the Sun) and in the quite common modern Greek name Elias (or Ilyas). Probably the same meaning is that of the ancient Greek name Illyrios, which is also related to the ”Sun” and to the ”Signing Star” or to a mountaineous land, which is ‘high up’ with a significant altitude and extends to ‘near the sky’, and not to either ”liberty”, which is the modern Albanian explanation, as conventionally thought.

The ancient Illyrians were a people of Greek stock, possibly of Dorian-Greek or of west-Greek stock, similar to the Epirotans’ and to the Macedonians’, that is. The real Illyrians were a Greek tribe whose kingdom were based around what is now called the Montenegran region, and its capital city Vuthoe (or Butva, as it is known today) was an ancient Greek city, possibly a colony of the southern ancient Greeks and most probably of those of the Beotean Thebans, given that in Thebes Kadmus was a King for many years before he emmigrated to Illyria.

Albanian brothers and sisters, read history carefully and try not to alter historic facts. We whole-heartedly support you to your just and fair cause against the foreign and invading Serbs (and against the Slavs, in general), who took much of your historic land many centuries ago. We are on your side, to say the least. However, to become Illyrian again or simply to deserve that glorious and historic ancient Greek tribal name, you may need to prove first to us and to the world today that you trully chose Hellenism and not Barbarism; that is, that you see modern Greeks as your true and historic ethnic and tribal brothers, not the other way around.

Be assured of the fact that once more in the future the Hellenes will stand firm to your side and to your just cause for liberty and for freedom, as we have done many times in the past, as well. We once gave you protection and freedom with the Greek King Illyrios and his Illyrians, with Alexander and his Macedonian Hellenes, with Pyrrus and his Epirotan Greeks, and quite more recently and for many times also with Georgios Kastriotis (aka the ”Skenderbeis”) -i.e. the famous Greek Epirotan Prince of Epirus and of Albaniae and lately with Ioannis Lekkas (aka the ”Gjon Lekkas” or simply the ”Gioulekas), who fought the Turks many times for you.

Comradely Greetings to all Albanian brothers and sisters,
Elias Leon A.
Athens, Greece.

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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#3

Post by Hellassoldier » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:59 pm

My Greek friend
Do not waste your time with Albanian propagandists...............
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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#4

Post by Mallakastrioti » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:39 pm

Hello Mr.Elias!

First of all, welcome in this Forum and hope that we will have a civil conversation and no matter if sometimes will be with opposing ideas (mutual respect is the most important).

I want to know, please, when you say that we have to embrace the Hellenism, can you give us a definition of that idea. What is this Hellenism? Is it an ideology? If so, do you mean the Hellenism of more than 2000 years ago, or that of 200 years ago (if I am not mistaken are two different things that ideologies, where, the first: had as a base the culture, of course, as the way of life, the language, the rules, and above all that that we know like the Hellenic imperialism, that culminated with the ideology of Aristotle, although the colonization and expansion of those people whom we call Greeks began centuries earlier. This kinde of Hellenic Imperialism was also during the Roman era, Bysantine time, Othoman era till the modern era.

According to the case. If the modern Hellenism means a kind of ecclesiastical ideology ( like you know that was the basis of modern Greece), I think we can not discuss here (please) this Hellenism.

As regarding the myths and mythologies, I think, we have to be very careful, in fact, because as you know, the mythology and the myths do not build the History like we study it at school or University etc., even that we call material culture that is, of course, Archaeology.

Thank you!
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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#5

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:26 pm

Elias wrote:Dear Albanian brother and reader,

Being a Greek of an ancient Arvanitan stock myself, I do not consider modern Albanians to be the enemies of Greece either.
Albanians feel the same way toward Greeks, but there are certain gray areas interpreting the past, that are stereotypically used by Greek politics in their advantage.
Moreover, our mislead Illyrian Greek brothers in the north today -that is, the Albanians of modern times, should return to Hellenism and to our common ancient Greek historic roots and traditions.
First, not everyone comprehends quite well what Hellenism represents today, including Hellenes themselves, but most importantly it's a little difficult not to differentiate the Modern Hellenism from that of the past, they are essentially quite different from each other.
What are those "historic roots and traditions" that you find in common? Is it because you belong to the Arvanitic stock, that makes you to be qualified as a Hellenic, or you are a Greek on the first place due to the fact you being an Orthodox Christian believer?
In Albania not every Albanian follow the same religion, majority of them are religionless, yet we are mostly ethnically Albanians hence not by nationality, however this rule doesn't apply in Greece: A Greek without Eastern Orthodox Christianity is not a Greek at all, but an ethnic mixture which is hard to explain.
Illyrios, was indeed the son of the Greek Theban King Kadmus and of the also Greek Princess Armonia,


According mythology and Cadmus by the way was Semitic
which used to be our common ancestors in past and in present times.
well, our COMMON not UNILATERAL GREEK
Hyllas, one of the many Greek children of Hercules, was an Illyrian King to the old Illyrian province of the ancient Greek Dalmatia.


It's a little unclear if he was generally Greek and specifically Illyrian or vice-versa
As a matter of fact, he was one of the many Illyrian Kings of the Bullinoi tribe.
province of the ancient Greek Dalmatia
This is correct, but why is this tribe placed close to Chaonia in today South Albania, by your fellow national who created this map?

Image

The answer is if it was placed on the map correctly the Ancient Hellas which is geographically immediate according to the ancient author descriptions, would have set about somewhere in the north Albanian today, and not where you want it to be.
The same name Hyllas (or Hyllos or simply Yllas) we find among the Dorian Spartans of the same period, which is said to have once migrated to Lakonia and Sparta from the ancient Greek land, which used to be to the north of Epirus, and is quite probably closer to the land of the Illyrian Greeks, somewhere nearby in modern day Montenegro and the Dalmatian Coast.
Well, if you keep describing like this, it's reasonable to name them not as Illyrian Greeks but as Greek Illyrians.
The old Dorian and Illyrian Greek name Hyllas (or Yllas) means ‘the Sun or the signing star’ in ancient Greek and is coded in the Greek name Helios (i.e. the Sun) and in the quite common modern Greek name Elias (or Ilyas). Probably the same meaning is that of the ancient Greek name Illyrios, which is also related to the ”Sun” and to the ”Signing Star”
It seems to me identical to the Albanian word YLL depriving it from the parasite suffix. So is the word Ἥλιος, a derivative of the word elli/illi.
The ancient Illyrians were a people of Greek stock, possibly of Dorian-Greek or of west-Greek stock, similar to the Epirotans’ and to the Macedonians’, that is. The real Illyrians were a Greek tribe whose kingdom were based around what is now called the Montenegran region, and its capital city Vuthoe (or Butva, as it is known today) was an ancient Greek city, possibly a colony of the southern ancient Greeks and most probably of those of the Beotean Thebans, given that in Thebes Kadmus was a King for many years before he emmigrated to Illyria.
I would consider the other way around. According mythology the starting point of the genuine Hellenic nation were the Illyrian Bylliones or the Illyrian Yllos as a patriarch and eponym.
Albanian brothers and sisters, read history carefully and try not to alter historic facts. We whole-heartedly support you to your just and fair cause against the foreign and invading Serbs (and against the Slavs, in general), who took much of your historic land many centuries ago. We are on your side, to say the least. However, to become Illyrian again or simply to deserve that glorious and historic ancient Greek tribal name,
We are doing this but if I had to consider this not a hypocrisy, it is exactly the Hellenes and the Servians who practice the same methods toward Albanians, interpreting the myths as a convectional history basing their chauvinistic predatory ideologies to keep them weak, divided, assimilated and therefore politically uninfluential.
you may need to prove first to us and to the world today that you trully chose Hellenism and not Barbarism; that is, that you see modern Greeks as your true and historic ethnic and tribal brothers, not the other way around.
This is not what we choose to be but what we rightfully are, which beyond any prejudice is our ancient identity: pastoral and farmer autochthonous stock, with clear ethnical identity, worshiping the sun, stars and nature. Beside that, Hellenism never stood against Barbarians like you imagine it today: the civilisation as opposed to the primitivism, back then it was a religious struggle between respectively Hellenic heliotheistic monotheism and naturalistic polytheismm, hence a religious division not an ethnical one. It had nothing to do with cultural dominance, like we understand it today, but let me ask you something: " Do you really think the Modern Hellenism represent a culturally superior ideology, to attract the ambition of other nations to join around it ?"

Be assured of the fact that once more in the future the Hellenes will stand firm to your side and to your just cause for liberty and for freedom, as we have done many times in the past, as well. We once gave you protection and freedom with the Greek King Illyrios and his Illyrians, with Alexander and his Macedonian Hellenes, with Pyrrus and his Epirotan Greeks, and quite more recently and for many times also with Georgios Kastriotis (aka the ”Skenderbeis”) -i.e. the famous Greek Epirotan Prince of Epirus and of Albaniae and lately with Ioannis Lekkas (aka the ”Gjon Lekkas” or simply the ”Gioulekas), who fought the Turks many times for you.
We appreciate your approach but we prefer our heroes Scanderbeg and Gjoleka to be called Albanians, because they belong to Albanian heritage, history and identity. When it comes to the ancient names like Alexander, Phyrrus or Epirotans going so back in that remote past to hijack them, doesn't achieve anything, but exposes the desperate efforts to give an unmeritable identity to the Modern Greeks, taking it way from Albanians where it rightfully belongs.
Comradely Greetings to all Albanian brothers and sisters,
Elias Leon A.
Athens, Greece.
Greeting Elias, our Arvanitic brother. At the end I have to say to you something:" Do not forget there are many religions to worship the God, but there is only one blood and one language that mighty God gave to you and us: Arberorian "
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#6

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:28 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Hello Mr.Elias!

First of all, welcome in this Forum and hope that we will have a civil conversation and no matter if sometimes will be with opposing ideas (mutual respect is the most important).

I want to know, please, when you say that we have to embrace the Hellenism, can you give us a definition of that idea. What is this Hellenism? Is it an ideology? If so, do you mean the Hellenism of more than 2000 years ago, or that of 200 years ago (if I am not mistaken are two different things that ideologies, where, the first: had as a base the culture, of course, as the way of life, the language, the rules, and above all that that we know like the Hellenic imperialism, that culminated with the ideology of Aristotle, although the colonization and expansion of those people whom we call Greeks began centuries earlier. This kinde of Hellenic Imperialism was also during the Roman era, Bysantine time, Othoman era till the modern era.

According to the case. If the modern Hellenism means a kind of ecclesiastical ideology ( like you know that was the basis of modern Greece), I think we can not discuss here (please) this Hellenism.

As regarding the myths and mythologies, I think, we have to be very careful, in fact, because as you know, the mythology and the myths do not build the History like we study it at school or University etc., even that we call material culture that is, of course, Archaeology.

Thank you!
E kane bere tashme praktike, qe bejne vetem nje koment dhe pastaj zhduken. Kjo tregon se paku, qe s'kane argumenta, por une mendoj se pas 2008-s u jane nderprere financimet, qe ushqenin makinen e tyre te propagandes. Para ketij viti ishin shume agresive dhe i mbushen mendjen gjithe botes, qe maqedonet e vjeter, Aleksandri, Pirroja dhe epirotet, bile dhe iliret ishin te gjithe greke dhe i vetmi komb qe na paskesh trasheguar kete kulture, na qenkan grekerit moderne.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#7

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:13 pm

Sigurisht qe do ishte çeshtje kohe qe do perfundonte arroganca e fqinjeve, Zeus10, por me mire vone se sa kurre. problemi eshte se politikave perendimore u interesonte kjo lloj vetmburrje te keshtuquajturve grek modern, por, problemi qendron se aty ekziston nje mish-mash idesh dhe ideologjish qe ngaterrohen (arkaikja, klasikja si periudhe kerkohet te plekset me ate te keshtuquajtur bizantine e deri kur i detyruan te beheshin Helen).
Helenizmi i tyre eshte nje abstraktizem ku edhe vet ata nuk dine tashme se çeshte ky Helenizem. Gjithesesi lidhur atij te lashtit (qe nuk shkon aspak dakort me ate modernin apo bashkekohorin) te cilin kerkojne ta trumpetojne edhe historianet apo studiuesit zyrtar, kur vjen puna ne aspektin e etnosit, edhe keta studiues terhiqen dhe bejne lojra fjalesh dhe kam ndermend ketu manualet apo librat universitar ku asnje nuk merr guximin ti hyje kesaj pune , pikerisht sepse ne se ne rastin Ilir, Epirot apo Maqedonas çeshtja e etnosit eshte shume me e qarte, ne konglomeratin etnik te te keshtuquajturve grek kemi nje paqartesi qe asnje nuk guxon ti hyje kesaj pune. Ai lloj Helenizmi ishte thjesht i tipit Imperialist sikurse ai Romak apo bizantin, Otoman e keshtu me radhe.
Shkojme dhe studiojme biles edhe Zotat apo Perendite e tyre te lashta dhe habitesh ku pothuajse 80% te rasteve ishin Zota apo Perendi te huazuara apo popujve te tjere, ku, ata thjesht i pershtaten dhe shume here u nderruan emrat dhe te njejten politike ndoqen edhe Romaket (do ishin Romaket ata qe do vazhdonin rrugen e Imperializmit Helen me nje lloj globalizmi te lashte) qe gelltisnin gjithçka te huaj. Ne se si mburoje perdorin qe greket na paskeshin shpikur qyteterimin apo demokracine, nuk eshte aspak e vertet, pasi edhe barbaret kishin qyteterimin e tyre si dhe format e tyre demokratike, pikerisht sepse si Persianet, Egjiptianet e lashte, apo Elimet, Sikanet, Sikulet, Etrusket, Fenikasit e gjithe popujt e lashte, kishin e çke me te nje histori dhe kulture, shume here me te perparuar se ai i Athines. Bibliotekat ishin ne Azine e Vogel dhe aspak ne Athine. Ne Athine nuk ka ekzistuar as nje Biblioteke.
Teatrot nuk i shpiken greket, pasi teatrot nuk perdoreshin vetem per te luajtur komedi apo tragjedi, por ishin edhe vende ku diskutohej per çeshtje politike (eshte ne imagjinaten kolektive ky lloj gabimi qe teatrot perdoreshin vetem per artin apo festat dhe festivalet). Perset kishin vendet e tyre ku diskutonin çeshtjet politike dhe prej momentit kur nje çeshtje diskutohet para se te merret vendimi eshte nje forme demokracie. Epirotet neper çeshtje politike si deshmitare (martyres) therrisnin edhe femrat ku ne te kundert ne Atike roli i femres ishte i njejti si ai i skllavit apo te huajit, biles femrat ne Athine jo vetem nuk kishin te drejte vote, por me teper, kishin nje dhome te veçuar nga burrat dhe nuk u lejohej te pershendesnin apo takonin mysafirin. E pra, keto gjera asnje nuk i thote siç ishin, por kerkojne te himnizojne vetem disa aspekte te ketij "djepi te qyteterimit"!
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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#8

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:35 pm

E kam sjell edhe ne nje postim tjeter. Diçka e pakonceptuar dhe e papranueshme per boten e lashte greke!

Sipas Aristotelit, ne vepren e tij "Politika", roli i gruas ne boten e lashte greke ishte larg mundesise per te marr pjese ne çdo lloj aktiviteti politik. Gruaja per greket e lashte ishte ne te njejtin nivel me sklleverit si dhe te huajit dhe si rrjedhoje nuk ishin qytetare te mirefillte ne kuptimin e plote te fjales.Gjithashtu, grate, nuk kishin te drejte votimi sikurse ne ambientet e banesave, ato, duhej te rrinin ne nje dhome te veçante dhe nuk mund te pershendesnin apo te qendronin ne dhomen e burrave kur vinin mysafire.
Ne kundershtim me boten e lashte greke (dhe me gjere), femrat si ne Epir dhe Iliri ( diçka qe tashme eshte deshmuar) , jo vetem kishin te drejte pronesie, pra qe ta administronin ate sikurse te kishin te drejte per marrjen e vendimeve, por me zbulimet e reja arkeologjike (ne mbishkrime/epigrafi), po dalin ne drite aspekte te tjera ku femra Epirote kishte te drejte, sikurse meshkujt, te ishte deshmitare neper gjykime, pra ne ndihme te magistrateve te shtetit (strategut dhe prostatit) Pra femrat Epirote, sikurse meshkujt, kishin te drejta gati te barabarta ne jeten publike si dhe ate politike.
Ne imazh nje epigrafi (mbishkrim) gjetur ne Finiq. Perkthimi sipas epigrafistit shqiptar F. Drini si me poshte:
"Fatit të mirë. Kur ishte strateg i epirotëve Menandri ..rkatos dhe prostat i kaonëve ————
——— (filani) i ka kushtuar Poseidonit Dazon, skllavin e vet, i shpallur i paprekshëm ; Nikarhos i biri i Nikomahut, Arbaios dhe Nikomahos dhe Mnasareta dhe Pamfila dhe Ksenotima, duke qënë, sipas ligjit, dëshmitarë nga arkontët."
Femrat Epirote ne fjale quheshin perkatesisht: Mnsareta, Pamfila dhe Ksenotima. Nuk kemi te dhena qe ne boten greke te perdoreshin praktika te tilla, pra ku roli i femres ishte i rendesishem ne jeten publike.
---
Shkeputur prej :F. DRINI.
"ARKONTË DHE SYNARKONTË NË EPIR
DHE NË ILIRINË E JUGUT
KARAKTERI I FUNKSIONEVE DHE PËRBËRJA E TYRE" - Iliria XXXIII, f.189.


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Zeus10
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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#9

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:47 pm

Falemnderit Mallakastrioti, shume interesante. Dua te di opinionin tuaj per keto mbishkrime, duke qene se ato konsiderohen te gdhendura ne "Gjuhen e Heleneve". A mendoni, se kjo eshte "gjuha e heleneve" ne dimensionin etnik dhe nuk ka te beje fare me "Gjuhen e Kishes", qe sipas historise se pranuar, u shfaq shekuj me vone pikerisht duke u bazuar ne gjuhen e 'popullit helenik"? A e keni menduar ndonjehere qe ska pasur kurre popull helenik te lashtesise dhe kjo me siper eshte thjesht gjuha e perdorur nga murgjit e Kishes se Lindjes?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#10

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Falemnderit Mallakastrioti, shume interesante. Dua te di opinionin tuaj per keto mbishkrime, duke qene se ato konsiderohen te gdhendura ne "Gjuhen e Heleneve". A mendoni, se kjo eshte "gjuha e heleneve" ne dimensionin etnik dhe nuk ka te beje fare me "Gjuhen e Kishes", qe sipas historise se pranuar, u shfaq shekuj me vone pikerisht duke u bazuar ne gjuhen e 'popullit helenik"? A e keni menduar ndonjehere qe ska pasur kurre popull helenik te lashtesise dhe kjo me siper eshte thjesht gjuha e perdorur nga murgjit e Kishes se Lindjes?

Eshte shume interesante kjo pike, Zeus10, por nje pergjigje po kaq interesante na e sjellin vet autoret e lashte grek si p.sh ne rastin e Dionis Halikarnasi i cili nder te tjera shkruan:

"Shume te tjere, per efekt te qendrimit te tyre midis barbareve, kane harruar ne kohe te shkurter te gjitha karakteristikat greke, dhe nuk perdorin me gjuhen greke, nuk perdorin me kostumet greke, nuk adhurojne me te njejtet zota, nuk kane me te njejtat ligje te drejta, per te cilat mbi te gjitha dallon natyra e Grekeve prej barbareve, pra nuk pajtohen me me asnje prej institucioneve te tjera. Prove e mjaftueshme e tezes sime eshte e bazuar prej atyre Akejeve qe banojne pergjat brigjeve te Pontit, qe edhe duke qene me origjine eleate (hellene), pra Grek autentike, jane tani barbaret me te ashper"

-Dion. Hal., Ant. Rom., I, 89, 4

Pra, çfare kuptojme nga nje informacion i tille? Helenizoheshe por me e rendesishmja eshte se DE-HELENIZOHESHE dhe biles vet ata qe konsideroheshin si Grek te mirefillte!

Si ka mundesi nje gje e tille ku "grek autentik" sikurse Akejte qe banonin pergjate brigjeve te Pontit ne nje periudhe relativisht jo te gjate harrojne gjuhen, kostumet dhe mbi te gjitha zotat, ku keta te fundit ishin edhe me te rendesishmit ne jeten e popujve te lashte (qe siç dime ishin teje religjoz)?

Per mendimin tim kjo tregon sa e brishte ishte kjo ideologji, pra Helenizmi i asaj periudhe si dhe tregon artificialitetin e tij. Po keshtu edhe ne ate qe njihet si gjuhe e lashte greke, nje forme gjuhe "koine" qe u institucionalizua ne Atike (e keshtuquajtura atikishte). A ka patur dialekte Atikishtja? Sigurisht qe jo, sikurse nuk kishte dialekte edhe Latinishtja, por eshte e vertet qe Atikishtja u perhap gjithandej ku depertoi ideologjia, pra Helenizmi, sikurse edhe Latinishtja e cila depertoi gjithandej ku Roma shtriu territoret e veta. Ne se do ishte nje gjuhe e popullit, kjo greqishte e lashte nuk do ishte zhdukur apo te kishte vdekur. U zevendesua per nje kohe te gjate (per gati 4 shekuj) prej latinishtes dhe "ringjallet" me monoteizmin e krishter, pra me Kishen ne nje forme tjeter ku kishte pak per tethene aspak lidhje me gjuhen e meparshme (greqishtja kishtare eshte nje forme tjeter dhe qe dallon nga ajo e meparshmja). Ka diçka qe nuk shkon, pasi do te thote qe keto gjuhe kane qene perhere te institucionalizuara dhe lindin nga lart poshte dhe jo anasjelltas siç kerkon historia dhe ligjet e gjuhesise (qe gjuhet lindin nga popujt)
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Re: Yllusi ose Yllasi, nje kerkim per te ne lashtesi

#11

Post by bardus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:09 pm

Aresyeja se pse Hylli eshte emri i djalit te Kadmos por edhe djalit Herkulit gjithashtu edhe Trojan
eshte sepse yll - hyll perkthehet ''bir,djalë [=diell]'' nga h- yi e njejte me hel.vj.-υἷ-ος ,υἷος
qe jep yll.

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