"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#16

Post by Patush » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:30 pm

E gjith kjo e gjen bazen neper dokumentet Turke, sic thone ata.
Je n'gjendje me pru citime per te tilla fakte apo jo.

Te mos harrojme se kur Arbenia ra, shume u larguan dhe te tjeret moren strehim ne male pra u detyruan te largohen nga qytetet neper fusha ku ishin dhe te ngujohen ne male.
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Heshtja eshte Hjeksi!

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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#17

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:31 pm

Le ti sjellin ata ato dokumenta, dokumentet tona tregojne se as maqedonasit as serbet nuk kane qene njesi etnike te vecanta, kurse shqiptaret po:
1000 - 1018
Anonymous:
Fragment on the Origins of Nations
What is possibly the earliest written reference to the Albanians is that to be found in an old Bulgarian text compiled around the beginning of the eleventh century. It was discovered in a Serbian manuscript dated 1628 and was first published in 1934 by Radoslav Grujic. This fragment of a legend from the time of Tsar Samuel endeavours, in a catechismal 'question and answer' form, to explain the origins of peoples and languages. It divides the world into seventy-two languages and three religious categories: Orthodox, half-believers (i.e. non-Orthodox Christians) and non-believers. Though the Serbs go unmentioned, the Albanians, still a small conglomeration of nomadic mountain tribes at this time, find their place among the nations of half-believers. If we accept the dating of Grujic, which is based primarily upon the contents of the text as a whole, this would be the earliest written document referring to the Albanians as a people or language group.


It can be seen that there are various languages on earth. Of them, there are five Orthodox languages: Bulgarian, Greek, Syrian, Iberian (Georgian) and Russian. Three of these have Orthodox alphabets: Greek, Bulgarian and Iberian. There are twelve languages of half-believers: Alamanians, Franks, Magyars (Hungarians), Indians, Jacobites, Armenians, Saxons, Lechs (Poles), Arbanasi (Albanians), Croatians, Hizi, Germans.
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts15/AH1000.html
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#18

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:46 pm

Ne dokumentin e meposhtem duket fare qarte qe Dibra dhe Ohri tashme ne territorin maqedonas ishin plotesisht te kontrolluara prej shqitareve:
1257
George Acropolites:
An Albanian Uprising
Historian George Acropolites (1217-1282) was the tutor of Emperor Theodore II Lascaris (r. 1254-1258) and later became rector of the university in Constantinople. His 'Chronicle' of the Nicaean Empire, based to a good degree on first-hand information and personal observations, covers the years 1203-1261.
When the two promised to carry out our decisions, I left them and hastened to Ohrid with my retinue to find out whether I would be able to put the situation in Albania back in order. I resolved to send the imperial sewer, Isaac Nestongus, to Albania and gave the usual orders for him to assume the supreme command. I was well aware of the fact that I could make such decisions without the slightest danger, i.e. that I could replace any of the regional tax and government officials, military commanders or local authorities at whim. I then decided to set off for Albania myself to bring the situation in that country back under control and to find out what the sewer had actually accomplished. On my departure from Albania, I took the sewer and all the forces with me because the Albanian people had acted in advance and had already carried through with their uprising. They had all defected to the turncoat Despot Michael. Since I could see for myself that everything was in turmoil, I left Dibra, where I had spent more days than necessary and where the enemy had encircled us, and took Ohrid by storm with several members of my retinue. In Ohrid I left the sewer to guard the castle and, marching through Prespa and a place called Siderokastron, reached Prilep. There I had the impression of having arrived in a safe haven.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#19

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:55 pm

1328, 1332, 1336
John Cantacuzene:
Unruly Nomads Pay Homage to the Emperor
Typical of the many short references to the Albanians in Byzantine chronicles is the following text by the Emperor John VI Cantacuzene (r. 1347-1355), whose 'History' covers the years 1320-1356. Here as in other texts, the Albanian tribes are described as wild and unruly nomads living in mountainous regions in the summer months and migrating to the lowlands in the winter months.
While the emperor was spending about eight days in Achrida (Ohrid), the Albanian nomads living in the region of Deabolis (Devoll) appeared before him, as well as those from Koloneia (Kolonja) and those from the vicinity of Ohrid (1). They paid homage to the emperor and willingly offered him their services. Those who lived farther away on the borders of the Byzantine Empire were commanded by letters from the emperor to hasten to Thessalonika in order to pay homage, which they did a short time later.
While the emperor was staying in Thessaly (2), the unruly Albanians living in the Thessalian mountains appeared before him who, according to their tribal leaders, are called Malakasians, Buians and Mesarites and whose numbers reach 12,000. They paid homage to the emperor and promised to serve him, for they were afraid of being annihilated by the Byzantines at the onset of winter, living as they do, not in towns, but in the mountains and in inaccessible regions. Since they must abandon these regions in the winter due to the cold and snow, which falls in incredible amounts in such vicinities, they believed that they would easily fall prey to them.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#20

Post by Hymniarber » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:00 am

Shqiptaret asnjehere nuk kane qene analfabete os thjesht "njerez mali" ata kane perdorur shkrimin po aq dendur sa te "tjeret"
1332
Anonymous:
Initiative for Making the Passage
The 'Directorium ad passagium faciendum',
One factor, among others, which makes this kingdom easy to conquer, is that it is inhabited by two peoples, i.e. the Albanians and the Latins who, in their beliefs, their rites and their obedience, both abide by the Roman Catholic Church. Accordingly, they have archbishops, bishops and abbots, as well as religious and secular clerics of lower rank and status. The Latins have six towns with bishops: firstly Antibarum (Bar), the seat of the archbishop, then Chatarensis (Kotor), Dulcedinensis (Ulcinj), Suacinensis (Shas) (2), Scutarensis (Shkodra) and Drivascensis (Drisht) (3), which are inhabited by the Latins alone. Outside the town walls, the Albanians make up the population throughout the diocese. There are four Albanian towns: Polatum Maius (Greater Pult) (4), Polatum Minus (Lesser Pult), Sabatensis (Sapa) (5) and Albanensis (Albanopolis) (6) which, together with the towns of the Latins, are all legally subject to the Archbishop of Bar and his church as their metropolitan. The Albanians indeed have a language quite different from Latin. However they use Latin letters in all their books (7). The sway of the Latins is thus confined to the limits of their towns. Outside the towns, they do possess vineyards and fields, but there are no fortifications or villages actually inhabited by the Latins. The Albanians for their part, the larger of the two peoples, could assemble over fifteen thousand horsemen for warfare according to the custom and manner of the country, who would be courageous and industrious warriors. Since the said Latins and Albanians suffer under the unbearable yoke and extremely dire bondage of their odious Slav leaders whom they detest - the people being tormented, the clergy humiliated and oppressed, the bishops and abbots often kept in chains, the nobles disinherited and held hostage, episcopal and other churches disbanded and deprived of their rights, and the monasteries in decay and ruin - they would all to a man believe that they were consecrating their hands in the blood of the aforementioned Slavs if a French prince were to appear before them whom they could make leader of their war against the said evil Slavs, the enemies of our true faith. With the help of the aforementioned Albanians and Latins, one thousand French knights and five or six thousand foot soldiers could without a doubt easily conquer the whole length and breadth of this kingdom.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#21

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:22 am

Kurse ky i meposhtmi nuk ka dyshim qe Maqedonia e lashte quhet Albania ne vitin:

1570
Anonymous:
A Physical Description of Albania and the Defence of Ulcinj
The name of the author of this report, first published by Sime Ljubic in 1880, is unknown, but he was probably one of the Venetian proveditors of Kotor. He seems, at any rate, to have visited many areas of Albania personally. His report provides much information, including many useful details, on the state of a country firmly now under Turkish rule.

The country of Albania is that which ancient authors called Macedonia,( i.e. only a part of Macedonia since the latter contains many lands and regions which are not Albanian). Albania itself is the part which has the Adriatic Sea as its western border. The said land of Albania extends from the north southwards from between the towns of Antivari (Bar) and Dulcigno (Ulcinj), settlements which are a mere fifteen miles apart. As such, Bar constitutes the end of Dalmatia and Ulcinj the beginning of Albania.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#22

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:31 am

Dhe qe ta mbyllim, kete kapitull sepse faktet jane kokeforta, qe nga lashtesia, ato territore nuk jane banuar prej Maqedonasve pa folur qe Maqedonasit e lashte ishin etnikisht ilire-epirote dhe trake.

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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#23

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:40 am

Po ashtu kemi dhe deshmite e autoreve antike te cilet pa asnje medyshje e nxjerrin popullaten e Maqedonise nje perzjerje pellazgo-iliro-epirote-trakase:

STRABO, Geography, book 7, Fragm 11
What is now called Macedonia was in earlier times called Emathia. And it took its present name from Macedon, one of its early chieftains. And there was also a city emathia close to the sea. Now a part of this country was taken and held by certain of the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, but most oii by the Bottiaei and the Thracians. The Bottiaei came from Crete originally, so it is said, along with Botton as chieftain. As for the Thracians, the Pieres inhabited Pieria and the region about Olympus; the Paeones, the region on both sides of the Axius River, which on that account is called Amphaxitis; the Edoni and Bisaltae, the rest of the country as far as the Strymon. Of these two peoples the latter are called Bisaltae alone, whereas a part of the Edoni are called Mygdones, a part Edones, and a part Sithones. But of all these tribes the Argeadae, as they are called, established themselves as masters, and also the Chalcidians of Euboea; for the Chalcidians of Euboea also came over to the country of the Sithones and jointly peopled about thirty cities in it, although later on the majority of them were ejected and came together into one city, Olynthus; and they were named the Thracian Chalcidians
Perfundim
NUK KA ASNJEGJE SLLAVE TEK MAQEDONASIT E LASHTE. ATA JANE NJE PJESE E VOGEL E POPULLIT TE MADH TE PELLAZGEVE.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#24

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:43 am

Bile dhe te famshmit Thesalas qe aq shume i deshirojne si sllavet ashtu dhe greket, jane Epirote:

Strab book 9.443
In reality and as Herodotus also affirms, Thessalians were a branch of Thesprotians thus Thessalians and Epirotans were kinsmen.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#25

Post by Socio » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:08 pm

1515
John Musachi:
Brief Chronicle on the Descendants of our Musachi Dynasty
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1515.html

The chronicle or memoir of John Musachi (Ital. Giovanni Musachi) constitutes the oldest substantial text written by an Albanian. Musachi, despot of Epirus, was of a noble, ruling family from the Myzeqe region of central Albania. He was forced to abandon his land and take flight to Italy when Albanian resistance to the Ottoman conquest collapsed and the country was occupied by the Turks.
So that you understand properly, let me tell you that to Lord Musachi was born Lord Andrew, my grandfather, and Lord Blaise ...

Lord Andrew Musachi (1) had also called upon the assistance of his other son in law, Lord Groppa, ruler of the town of Ocrida (Ohrid) which included much surrounding land belonging to him. The town of Ohrid is situated beside a lake from which the river Drin springs and in which many carp, trout and other fine fish are caught.



Ref:

(1) Andrew Musachi (1280-1319).
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#26

Post by Socio » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:52 pm

1575
Carlo Ranzo:
Report on a Voyage from Venice to Constantinople
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1575.html

In this report, Carlo Ranzo describes the overland passage of Venetian Ambassador Giacomo Soranzo through the mountains of Albania to and back from Constantinople. Soranzo was ambassador to London around 1553-1557 and to Constantinople in 1576-1581. This extract recounts the Albanian portion of his harrowing voyage.
Many Albanian nobles came to pay homage to His Excellency and brought him many castrated sheep, calves, hares, chickens and ducks, loads of biscuits, white bread, casks of wine of various kinds, and great quantities of salted fish. They showed signs of great affection for the Serene Lords of Venice under whose dominion they had once lived. When the horses were made ready, we set off from this town, accompanied by the said adjutant, the voivods and the four janissaries. We rode over a fair plain that stretches for 22 miles and arrived at the foot of the mountains through which we were to travel for several days. As it was late, we raised our tents to spend the night there. In the meantime, the adjutant sent the voivod to the nearest settlement to bring back a number of men who would guard us on our way. Thus, at midnight, we were presented with two hundred Albanians, inhabitants of a mountainous region called the Upper Black Mountains [Karadaku i Shkupit / Skopska Crnagora], where because of the height of the mountains, they never see the sun. In the mountains, we could hear the drum that was being beaten to inform the inhabitants that a large group of men was passing through. The man beating the drum looked like a bird to us. These people are dark-skinned. Their heads and beards were shaven, except for their moustaches. Their shirts were black with filth and they were very poorly dressed. They looked like men from hell – savage and frightening in appearance. They carried wooden bows and arrows next to their rusty swords, with wooden sheathes. On their heads, they wore caps like red berets, all greasy and ugly, and when they clambered down their mountains, they gave out cries that seemed not to be human but rather like the raging of a bull. The women, dark-skinned, too, were strong and healthy-looking, more so than the men. They wore three chains of aspers as necklaces and bracelets. These aspers, silver coins, are worth sixty to a sequin. These women brought food to our tents. There were so many women that it looked like market day. They were Christians. Accompanied by these Albanians, we rode for fourteen days through the mountains called the Black Mountains of Skopje.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#27

Post by Socio » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:32 pm

1774
Johann Thunmann:
On the History and Language of the Albanians and Vlachs
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1774.html

Only a small portion of Macedonia was inhabited by the Greeks. The mass of the population was Illyrian and Thracian. The Dassaretae, the Lyncestae, the Bryges or Phrygians, the Pelagones, The Eordi, the Elimiotes, the Atintanes, the inhabitants of the region around Candavia, Pella, Edessa and Verva have all been expressly referred to as Illyrian. To a great extent, it was almost only the towns on the coast that had Greek inhabitants. The Macedonians had a language of their own that was also spoken in the regions along the Ionian Sea across from Corfu and, thus in Greek Illyria and Epirus.
There were also many non-Greek peoples in Epirus who, as noted above, spoke the Macedonian language, or the Illyrian language, which was probably the same thing.
The Bulgarians, a people of the same origin as the Hungarians, crossed the Danube in 679 and spread from the Black Sea to Timok. They were to become the worst neighbours and foes of the Byzantines. They were almost constantly on the move through Thrace and Macedonia. After taking Sardica under Krum in 809, they spread into Dardania and came close to the Illyrians on the coast. Since the diocese of Dacia and Praevalis were lost entirely due to their conquests, this province was most probably attached to the diocese of Macedonia.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#28

Post by Zeus10 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:34 pm

Thus, at midnight, we were presented with two hundred Albanians, inhabitants of a mountainous region called the Upper Black Mountains [Karadaku i Shkupit / Skopska Crnagora], where because of the height of the mountains, they(pra shqiptaret-shenimi im) never see the sun.
Socio, e vecova perseri kete fjali, sepse kjo ne menyre te pakundershtueshme shkermoq pretendimet e serbo-maqedonasve, se shqiptaret jane vetem banore te zbritur nga mali(pavaresisht se filozofet tyre duhet te na shpjegojne se kush quhet autokton, ai qe i eshte ngjitur malit per ti shpetuar pushtuesit, apo ai tjetri qe banon rreth e rotull malit dhe mund te jete vecse pushtues) qe pushtuan tokat e tyre. Nese shqiptaret do te banonin ne pjeset e larta te malit, dhe do te zbrisnin te pushtonin ""autoktonet"" sllave te rëzës se malit, atehere ata, nuk do te kishin veshtiresi te shihnin Diellin, i cili shihet me kollaj sa me lart te ngjitesh dhe ku ata duhet te kishin banesat e tyre(gjithmone sipas pretendimeve sllave).
Une jo me kot solla nje citim(postimi-Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:55 pm), ku thuhet, qe shqiptaret, nje popull qe merreshin kryesisht me blegtori, shkonin ne vere ne kullotat malore per te kullotur bagetine.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#29

Post by Socio » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:37 pm

Zeus10 wrote:
Thus, at midnight, we were presented with two hundred Albanians, inhabitants of a mountainous region called the Upper Black Mountains [Karadaku i Shkupit / Skopska Crnagora], where because of the height of the mountains, they(pra shqiptaret-shenimi im) never see the sun.
Socio, e vecova perseri kete fjali, sepse kjo ne menyre te pakundershtueshme shkermoq pretendimet e serbo-maqedonasve, se shqiptaret jane vetem banore te zbritur nga mali(pavaresisht se filozofet tyre duhet te na shpjegojne se kush quhet autokton, ai qe i eshte ngjitur malit per ti shpetuar pushtuesit, apo ai tjetri qe banon rreth e rotull malit dhe mund te jete vecse pushtues) qe pushtuan tokat e tyre. Nese shqiptaret do te banonin ne pjeset e larta te malit, dhe do te zbrisnin te pushtonin ""autoktonet"" sllave te rëzës se malit, atehere ata, nuk do te kishin veshtiresi te shihnin Diellin, i cili shihet me kollaj sa me lart te ngjitesh dhe ku ata duhet te kishin banesat e tyre(gjithmone sipas pretendimeve sllave).
Une jo me kot solla nje citim(postimi-Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:55 pm), ku thuhet, qe shqiptaret, nje popull qe merreshin kryesisht me blegtori, shkonin ne vere ne kullotat malore per te kullotur bagetine.

Shume bukur, Zeus !
Last edited by Socio on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: arberiaonline kunderpergjigjet!

#30

Post by Picasso` » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:38 pm

Sllavet keto dit neper forume dalin edhe sherbehen me keto menyra...

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Dhe se ata nomade dhe blektore nuk mund te jen autokton por popull qe leviz prej vendit ne vend, dhe asesi nuk e ze vendi.

Edhe me felliqesira te tilla..

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/06/eus ... 3-1712.htm
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