"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#1

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:04 pm

Edhe pas humbjeve të mëdha të territoreve në Ilirinë Veriore (si pasojë e pushtimeve të njëpasnjëshme të popullsive barbare), kronikat mesjetare bëjnë fjalë për një popull arbëror që jeton prej malësive të Hercegovinës e deri në Etoli në jug.
Edhe legjendat epike të kreshnikëve Muji e Halili së bashku me trimat e tjerë kanë zanafillën në kufirin e vjetër shqiptaro-sllav (e kam fjalën pas ardhjes së sllavëve ose sllavizimit të ilirëve verior) që sipas gjitha gjasave gjendej në afërsi të Jutbinës (ku zhvillohen përleshje epike midis shqiptarëve autokton dhe kralëve sllav ardhacak). Në këtë temë janë të mirseardhura gjitha ato materiale që hedhin dritë sadopak mbi elementin shqiptar në Mal të Zi, Hercegovinë e gjër në Kroaci.
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#2

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:07 pm

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#3

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:11 pm

MONTENEGRINS


The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe… are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion

`Races of Europe’ Carlton S. Coon Chapter 14:The Greeks 1939
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#4

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:27 pm

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#5

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:41 pm

M.E. Durham (1863-1944), who travelled widely in Albania and Montenegro and devoted much time to the study of Montenegrin and Albanian tribes, came to the conclusion that the Montenegrin is not so much a Slav as a Slavized descendant of the older inhabitants, i.e., of Vlachs, and Albanians (see Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans, London, 1928, PP. 13-59).

That the Montenegrin tribes were originally Albanian tribes was already indicated by K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).

The marked distinction between the Serbs and the Montenegrins was pointed out by Prof. Savo Birkovic in a recent work: 0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980.
http://www.home.no/dukagjin/Footnotes.html
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#6

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:45 pm

1841
Nicolay, Prince of the Vasoyevich:
Brief Information on the Tribes of High Albania,
in particular on the Independent Mountains

Nicolay, Prince of the Vasoyevich, or Prince des Wassoevitch as he calls himself in French, was the author of some French-language essays and letters on the mountainous region along the present border between Albania and Montenegro. He was active during the reign of Prince Petar II Petrovic Njegos (r. 1830-1851) of Montenegro, and seems to have first-hand knowledge about the highland tribes of Albania and Montenegro at the time. Little else is known of him.



Ancient Holmia (Mountains) is situated between the Adriatic Sea, the Bay of Kotor, Bulgaria and Old Serbia, between Herzegovina, Lake Ohrid, Elbasan and Durrës. It now forms the entirety of High Albania, part of Herzegovina, Bosnia and Old Serbia.
It is about 51.3 leagues long and about 30.8 leagues wide, which makes about 1,580 square leagues. It has a population of about 320,000 souls, of whom 74,000 fighters and 5,400 cavalry.

The country is covered in mountains and steep cliffs, gorges and regions that are so inaccessible that from ancient times up to the present, no armed force has been able to penetrate them.

I do not wish to go into topographical details about the country because it is too vast a subject and would require much more careful and special treatment. I would just like to note that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get an accurate idea of the nature of this country and of the frightening aspect of its mountains. Every step one takes, one encounters a fort, every stone is a defensive wall that nature created to stop men from advancing. In short, High Albania is a perfect natural fortress that no power has ever been able to conquer or subdue.

History tells us that the Romans, and even the Turks, were masters of this country. This is true, but in the sense of stipulations that fulfilled the needs of these tribes, and not by force of arms.

Ancient Holmia derives its name from a lofty mountain called Holm, situated in the tribal land of the Vasoyevich against the Turks of Kolashin.

Holmia is now divided into two parts. The first are the independent mountains comprising Montenegro and Brda (ancient Holmia). The second are the mountains dependent upon the Porte for their pastureland and markets, but who pay nothing to the Turks and govern themselves.

The people who now inhabit this country are of two different races: Albanian tribes and Slav tribes. The Albanian tribes or Skyptars are the descendents of Illir, son of Cadmus, King of the Phoenicians, who left his country on the arrival of the Israelites, travelled with this son and his people to settle on the banks of the Adriatic Sea, from Greece to Lake Shkodra, a position that they have held up to the present, without having altered their costumes and customs. Their language has also remained to the present day just as it was thirty-three centuries ago. This language bears no resemblance to languages to the north of it, except for technical terms and titles taken from their masters.

All the Albanians are Roman Catholic, but out of a dislike they have for the pope and the Latin language, they hold the clergy in low esteem and are little devoted to their religion.

The Slavic tribes inhabiting these high reaches are Ostrogoth Slavs who took over the country under King Sverlade and his son Ostrovoy or Ostroyl at the time of the Roman emperors Anastasius and Justin in 495. They are all of Greek Orthodox religion and are devoted to their faith to an almost fanatic extent, but the clergy has lost much of its original influence.

The mountains independent of the Porte are completely free and independent. Since 1389, they have been in continuous warfare with the Turks and have never made peace with them up to the present day, nor recognized any of their laws. The great Turkish rulers have never been recognized by them as legitimate sovereigns of the Slav Empire, but only as pirates and henchmen who have taken over their country in the most vile and shameful manner, at the head of a mass of homeless vagrants and evildoers without a nationality, profiting from the discord that reigned among the Christians. What is more, history has acknowledged the infamous and atrocious conduct of all the Turkish sultans against the Christians. The independent tribes are firmly and energetically resolved to die rather than to submit to the yoke of any outside power.

The mountains independent of the Porte are also divided into two parts: 1) the 24 tribes of Montenegro, consisting 70,000 souls and where the Vladika of Montenegro is the absolute ruler, constitute real Montenegro; 2) the Brda (Holmia) composed of seven large tribes independent of one another where each tribal chief is absolute master of his people. The Brda are also called the Seven Mountains and consist of 42,000 souls. The Uskoci (a people living in a sort of federation with the mountains) consist of 22,800 souls, and with Montenegro and the Seven Mountains form a total of 134,800 souls who are able to muster forces and move within twenty-four hours. However, should needs be, if there is a general attack on their country, this number can be doubled.

The mountains dependent on Turkey are the tribes of Herzegovina, consisting of 32,800 souls, the five tribes of old Serbia consisting of 28,800 souls, the seven tribes of Dukagjin consisting of 48,000 souls, the tribes of Mirdita with 20,000 souls, the tribes of Dibra with 24,000 souls, those of Lura with 4,000 souls, and the tribes of Zadrima with 8,000 souls, which make up a total of 184,400 souls, of whom 46,300 men-in-arms.

The tribes of Montenegro are not native to this country. They are made up of various families of Ostrogoth Slavs, Bosnians and, most of all, inhabitants of Herzegovina. They date from 1500.

The most famous Montenegrin tribes are those of Catuska-Nahia, from whom the Vladika of Montenegro descends and who were never subjugated by the Turks or the Venetians. In 1711, the Russian czar, Peter the Great, sent them treaties and patent letters with many promises he never intended to keep, to get them to take up arms against the Turks. This marks the beginning of Russian relations with these tribes.

In order to acquire a bastion on the Adriatic Sea and to promote its political objectives in the heart of civilised Europe, so to speak, Russia, giving various pretexts, bestowed upon the Vladika of Montenegro a pension of 85,000 francs a year, but the real objective of this was to attach all the chiefs of the warring tribes to the Russian side.
The tribes of the independent mountains are native to the country. This is ancient Holmia and Podgora. They go back to the year 495, but their separation into tribes began in 1160 when the last Slav king of the Ostrogoths in Dalmatia, Radoslav the 45th, persecuted by one of his generals called Dessa to whom he had shown great favour and generosity by making him Prince of Rascia, was obliged to withdraw into the mountains with his four sons, Vaso, Kraso, Hoto and Pipo, and all his relatives. The descendents of these four sons created the four great tribes: Vasoyevichi, Krasniqi (Dukagjin), Hoti and Piperi, and they have preserved their freedom and independence there to the present day. In case of general peril, i.e. in a war against the Turks, they join forces with the Montenegrins.

The war that began in 1476 and has lasted ever since, the day-to-day killings and massacres with the Turks, with ravage and desolation, are the cause of the poverty of the mountains and of Montenegro. This terrible struggle has deprived them of all communication with the outside world, to all effect with mankind. They have no culture, no trade and no industry. Hemmed in on all sides and surrounded by barbarians, blood-stained for centuries, they have themselves become barbarians in the sense that the life of one man is less valuable than the life of a goat! Such is the terrible life of all the independent tribes and of those dependent on the Porte in High Albania!

There are two princely families that stem from the ancient dynasty of the independent tribes. In the Krasniqi (Dukagjin) tribes is the princely family of Aly-tzor blood that was compelled to convert to Islam, but that will return to its original, Christian religion when the right time comes.

In the Vasoyevich tribes, it is the princely family of the lineage of Miloshevich, the eldest son of Prince Radoslav (Rayo) who is a fourth-generation descendant of the grand Voyvod, Prince Stephen (Stevo) Vasoyevich. This prince was killed in 1389 at the disastrous Battle of Kosovo Polje. Stephan is the fifth-generation descendant of Prince Voyslav (Vaso), eldest son of King Radoslav 45th. Thus today, the ancient princely family among the Vasoyevich tribes consists of three sons and one daughter who are: Svietoslav, Branislav, Altoman and Elisabeth. The three princes are the sons of Prince Nicolay and Princess Nastasy. In the fourth generation are the descendants of Prince George (Djuro), renowned in Slavic folksongs. In the sixth generation are the descendants of Prince Milosh, the eldest son of Prince Radoslav (Rayo or Radogna). In the eleventh generation are the descendants of the above-mentioned grand Voyvod of Sientza, Prince Stephen (Stevo) Vasoyevich. In the fifteenth generation are the descendants of Prince Vogislav (Vaso), eldest son of King Radoslav 45th.

Aside from the princely family in the Vasoyevich tribes, there are two hereditary voyvods: one for the upper Vasoyevich and one for the lower Vasoyevich.

The two other above-mentioned tribes, the Hoti and the Piperi, are also governed by hereditary voyvods.

The best known tribe in the independent mountains are the Mirdites. This tribe is the oldest in the country. Their chief is the prince of the Doda family, represented today by two princes, Doda and Mark.

The Slavic Serb people that inhabit upper Moesia (now called Serbia) never had any tribe, and all the princes, zhupans, kings and emperors originated either from Zaholnica or from Holmia, from the stem of the Ostrogoth Slavs.

The reigning family in Serbia were the Nemanja, sons of a priest from the village of Ljubomir in Zaholnica (now called Herzegovina). There are no more descendants of the old Serb dynasty or of old Serb nobility. Milosh, the former governor of Serbia, was the first noble of the Serbs to be accorded the princely title of Begh (bey) by the Turks, but a real prince in Turkish is called Begh-Zade. Aside from them, there is no real Serb nobility in Serbia.



Overview of the Military Statistics
of the Tribes of High Albania

Independent Mountains

1. Tribal Montenegro is governed by the Vladika of Montenegro, absolute ruler.


Population
60,000


Fighters
15,000
Brda, Mountains
2. Bjelopavlichi tribe
3. Piperi tribe
4. Rovtza
5. The two Morachas
6. Upper Vasoyevich
7. Bratonoshitchi
8. Kuchi

In the mountains, each chief is absolute ruler of his tribe.

8,000
8,000
1,600
1,600
1,600
6,000
8,000

2,000
2,000
400
400
400
1,200
2,000

The Uskoci
1. Drobnjaci
2. Nikshichka
3. Upper Vasoyevich
4. Lower Vasoyevich

6,000
2,000
12,000
2,000

1,200
500
3,000
500

The total for the independent mountains is composed of tribes that since 1839 have never been conquered by the Turks.

114,4000

33,100

The mountains dependent on the Porte for pastureland and markets but who pay no taxes are the mountain tribes of Shkodra,

these being:
1. Kelmendi
2. Hoti
3. Gruda
4. Kastrati
5. Shkreli
6. Shala
7. Shoshi
8. Poutali
Rugovo
Krasniqi
Berisha
Gashi
Thaçi
Sath
9. Mirdita
10. Lura
11. Zadrima
2,000
2,400
1,200
2,400
2,800
4,000
1,600
2,400
4,000
4,000
16,000
4,000
2,800
2,000
20,000
4,000
8,000

500
600
300
600
700
1,000
400
600
1,000
1,000
4,000
1,000
700
500
5,000
1,000
2,000

The total of the Albanian tribes in the mountains of Shkodra recognising Turkish rule in some manner for pastureland and markets, but who payno taxes.
These are the armed Catholics.
The tribes who pay taxes to the Turks and live on the plains and form armies.
These are those of Shkodra.
The tribes of the plains of Herzegovina
Infantry
Cavalry
The five tribes of old Serbia
Infantry
Cavalry

83,000




160,000



20,000
12,800

20,000
8,800

20,900




40,000



5,000
3,200

5,000
2,200
Total of Christian tribes on the plains
221,600

55,400

Recapitulation

Independent and self-governing tribes.
Tribes dependent on the Porte for pastureland and markets, but paying no taxes.
Tribes of the plains paying taxes to the Porte



114,400
83,600


221,600



33,100
20,900


55,400
Total
437,600

109,400

[Manuscript discovered in the Archives of the Lazarist Community in Paris. Published in Bulletin de la Société Géographique de Paris, Paris 1841. Translated from the French by Robert Elsie.]

http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts19/AH1841_2.html
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#7

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:50 pm

The Gheghides, who boast of having numbered among them such a hero as Scanderbeg, unite, according to the learned topographer of Greece (Colonel Leake), “the cruelty of the Albanian to the dulness of the Bulgarian.” They have long enjoyed a greater share of independence, under the Pashas of Scodra, than any other of the Albanian tribes. They are equally good soldiers with the latter, and have preserved more of their natural stubbornness, from the fact of their having been less often employed as such by the Turks. Their country extends from the frontier of the Austrian territory of Cattaro round the Montenegro, which may be considered an independent state; and, following the ridges which unite it to Mount Scardus, it reaches the Herzegovina, while it is bounded on the south by the river Drino. Scutari, or Scodra, is their chief town, and Dulcigno, Alessio, and Durazzo belong to them.

1848
James Henry Skeene:
The Albanians

http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts19/AH1848_2.html
Sipas përshkrimit të dhënë nga James Skini, Shqipëria zgjatej gjër në Hercegovinë dhe përmendet lumi Drino, që për mendimin tim s'duhet ngatërruar kurrsesi me Drinin e bardhë ose të Zi, por për lumin e sotshëm Drina që është në kufirin Serbi-Bosnjë. Ja vendondodhja e tij:

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#8

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:04 am

Duke folur për shqiptarët e sllavizuar (gjegjësisht boshnjakizuar) të Sanxhakut të Novi Pazarit ose Tregut të Ri, thënë më shqip:
Some twenty percent of Bosniaks stem from the Catholic Albanian clans of Northern Albania[citation needed] and neighbouring Montenegro. Most of them were resettled by the ruling Ottomans at the beginning of the 18th century from Malësia e Shkodrës (Serbian/Bosnian/Montenegrin: Skadarska Malesija), partly aiming to populate the lands deserted by the fleeing Orthodox population after the Austro-Turkish wars. By the end of the 19th century, all these Albanians converted to Islam, and were assimilated into the dominant wave of Bosniak refugees from Montenegro proper. Nevertheless, they retained many of their Albanian traditions, especially in the eastern parts of Sandžak, and some older Bosniaks of Albanian ancestry even speak fluent Albanian to this day.
Le të abstrahojmë atë pjesën fare të pasaktë ose atë indoktrinën e propagandës serbe se 'këta shqiptarë janë me origjinë prej Malësisë së Mbishkodrës dhe janë vendosur nga otomanët', pjesët tjera sikur qëllojnë në shenjë. Sanxhaku dhe sanxhaklinjtë kanë një ndërgjegje historike të të qenurit shqiptar. Lidhur me këtë temë po shtoj edhe këto:
Nga libri "Udhëtim nëpër Hercegovinë, Bosnje e Serbi të Vjetër" i pansllavistit rus Aleksandër Hilferding.

(fusha e Sijenicës)...Kjo është e gjatë gjashtë orë rrugë. Në fushën e Sjenicës fillojnë vendbanimet shqiptare. Nëse këndej Stari Vllahit e takoni muslimanin, duhet të jeni të sigurtë se ky është shqiptar ose me prejardhje shqiptare. Në qoftë se jua tregojnë një ortodoks, duhet të dini se ai është sllav. Pas Stari Vllahit, do të thotë, këtej kufirit të Bosnjes, nuk ka sllavë që kanë pranuar islamizmin, përveq një numri të vogël qytetarësh në Novi-Pazar. E njëjta gjë është edhe në Serbinë e Vjetër dhe në Principatën e Serbisë. Përjashtimet janë aq të rralla sa që ato, në krahasim me numrin shumë të madh të sllavëve muslimanë në Bosnje, nuk kanë kurrfarë domethanie.

...Sjenica.. katër shtëpi kristiane ndërsa treqind shtëpi muslimane. Të gjithë muslimanët shqiptarë flasin serbisht, ndoshta shumë nga këta e kanë harruar shqipen fare.

...rreth Sopoçanit jetojnë muslimanët shqiptarë të vrazhdë. Të krishterë ka fare pak.

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Burimi: http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/AXL/europe/Kosovo.htm

Mbi përbërjen etnike të Sanxhakut të sotëm:

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#9

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:22 am

Milan Shuflaj, ky dijetar i madh, në veprën e tij kushtuar shqiptarëve bën fjalë edhe për një familje të shquar shqiptare (ose fis) në Hercegovinë. Kjo familje mbiemrin e kishte Zotaj, ndërkaq në regjistrimet sllave i shtohej prapashtesa sllave (ovic pra Zotoviç). Edhe fshati im quhet Zotaj.
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#10

Post by ALBPelasgian » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:22 am

Kjo është përmbledhja e shkurtër në formë rezymeje që e përgatita nga materiali i gjetur. Kush ka ndonjë vërejtje le ta thotë që tani ose ndonjë sugjerim. Iu kisha lutur sinqerisht që kush e njeh mirë gjuhën Angleze dhe ka kohë, le ta përkthejë sa më parë këtë shkrim.


Malazezët - Origjina e tyre shqiptare

Dyndjet sllave sigurisht se e mpakën territorin e stërmadh të Ilirisë, e cila sipas Apianit (APPIAN, The Foreign Wars Ill. 1.1) shtrihej ç'prej Istrit (Danubi) e gjër në Kaoni e Thesproti (më saktë Gjiri i Ambrakisë). Një pjesë e madhe e popullsisë ilirike të Veriut u spraps më në jug në malet shkëmbore të Shqipërisë Veriore, prej nga u ruajt substanca e tyre etnike gjër në ditët tona, substancë e cila përfaqësohet nga shqiptarët modernë.
Sepse pikërisht siç konstaton me të drejtë Princ Nikolla i Vasojeviçëve: '... High Albania is a perfect natural fortress that no power has ever been able to conquer or subdue'. Mirëpo, një numër i konsiderueshëm i popullsisë ilirike fare nuk u zpraps mirëpo qëndroi në viset e tyre shekullore. Kjo popullsi arriti t'i bëjë ballë sllavizimit gjër në shekujt e fundit. Bëhet fjalë pra për popullsinë e Hercegovinës dhe Malit të Zi, të cilët edhe pse në ditët tona gjuhësisht janë sllav, ata prapëseprapë në aspektin antropologjik dhe etnologjik ruajnë substancën e vjetër dhe lidhjet e tyre me shqiptarët (ilirët e fundit të paasimiluar) janë më se të qarta. Kronikat mesjetare flasin për një popull Arbëror që shtrihej prej malësive të Hercegovinës e deri te Etolia në jug. Një numër i madh gjeografësh të huaj kanë precizuar se kufiri i Shqipërisë prekte Hercegovinën e sotme. Kësisoj, gjeografi i shquar danez Kondrad Malte Brun (1755-1826) shkruan se: '“No geographer has determined the extent of Arnaoutlik, a country that borders on Rascia, Macedonia and Bosnia”.
'The country now called Albania is difficult of definition. It was at first confined to the little district of Albanopolis,* (now Albassan) in Southern Illyricum, afterwards called New Epirus....so that in the present day it borders to the N. upon Bosnia, to the E. upon Macedonia and Thessaly, to the S. upon Acaruania and the Ambracian Gulf, to the W. upon the lonian Sea and the Adriatic' thotë Thomas S.Hughes.
Ndërkaq, James Henry Skeene jep thuajse të njejtat vija përshkrimi:
'Their country extends from the frontier of the Austrian territory of Cattaro round the Montenegro, which may be considered an independent state; and, following the ridges which unite it to Mount Scardus, it reaches the Herzegovina, while it is bounded on the south by the river Drino'.
Këta gjeografë që nënvizojnë faktin se kufinjtë e Shqipërisë shtriheshin gjër në Hercegovinë nuk kanë bërë vetëm përshkrime të nivelit gjeografik. Baza e këtyre pohimeve të tyre duhet të jetë mbështetur edhe në faktin që kulturalisht, popullsia e këtyre vendeve (Mali i Zi dhe Hercegovina) është e njëvlefshme me Shqiptarët. Robert Elsie & Janice Mathie-Heck në librin e tyre 'Songs of the frontier warriors' nënvizojnë karakterin epik të këngëve legjendare të Shqipërisë Veriore, epikë e cila karakterizonte edhe popullatat (sot të sllavizuara) të Malit të Zi dhe Hercegovinës. Jo vetëm kaq por edhe aspekte të tjera të sjelljes kolektive të Malazezëve janë të ngjashme me ato të shqiptarëve. Edmund Spencer thotë:
'In personal appearance the mountaineers of Tchernegora rather resemble their neighbours in Albania, than their brethren in Servia; there is the same nervous, lofty form, animated expression, and a certain degree of saucy audacity in their manners and bearing; they have also imbibed from their neighbours many of their customs and manners, particularly the belief in retributive justice, and that blood can only be expiated by blood, consequently sanguinary conflicts frequently break out between different tribes'. Madje, një nga vallet më tipike shqiptare, Vallja e Shpatave ( e cila rrjedh drejtëpërdrejtë nga vallja e lashtë pirrike që ka zanafillën në Epirin shqiptar) luhej gjithashtu edhe Mal të Zi dhe Bosnjë. Spenceri vazhdon:
'The Athenian dance described by Homer, although somewhat modified, is still the dance of this people— the " Kolo." Even the " Pyrrhic" may be seen danced here, as well as in Tchernegoria, Bosnia and Albania.'
The marked distinction between the Serbs and the Montenegrins was pointed out by Prof. Savo Birkovic in a recent work: '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980. M.E. Durham (1863-1944), who travelled widely in Albania and Montenegro and devoted much time to the study of Montenegrin and Albanian tribes, came to the conclusion that the Montenegrin is not so much a Slav as a Slavized descendant of the older inhabitants, i.e., of Vlachs, and Albanians (see Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans, London, 1928, PP. 13-59). hat the Montenegrin tribes were originally Albanian tribes was already indicated by K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).
Mbase i një rëndësie të veçantë është edhe aspekti antropologjik i ngjashmërisë midis shqiptarëve dhe malazezëve (shqiptarëve të sllavizuar). Carleton Cooni (1904-1981) president i 'American Association of Physical Anthropologists' nënvizon faktin se:
'The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe… are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion' .

----------------------------
1. Appian, The Foreign Wars
2. Nicolay, Prince of the Vasoyevich: 'Brief Information on the Tribes of High Albania,
in particular on the Independent Mountains'
3. Condrad Malte Brun 'Universal geography: or A description of all parts of the world'
4. Thomas Smart Hughes 'TRAVELS IN GREECE AND ALBANIA' 1830
5. James Henry Skeene 'The Albanians' 1848
6. Edmund Spencer 'Travels in European Turkey, in 1850: through Bosnia, Servia, Bulgaria'
7. Savo Birkovic '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980
8. Edith Durham 'Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans', London, 1928
9. K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).
10. Carleton Stevens Coon 'The races of Europe' 1939
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#11

Post by Arta » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:13 pm

Montenegrin's - their Albanian Origin

Slavic invasions certainly decreased the enormous territory of Illyria, which according to Apianit APPIAN, The Foreign Wars Ill. 1.1) extended from Istrit (Danube) to as far as Chaonia and Thesproti (precisely, Ambracia bay). A large portion of the northern Illyrian population shifted farther south in the rocky mountains of northern Albania, where their culture and ethnic identity survive today, an Illyrian identity which is represented by the modern Albanians.

As Prince Nicholas of Vasojeviçëve states in his notes Vasojeviçëve: '... High Albania is a perfect natural Fortress that no power has ever been able to subdue or Conquer '. However, a considerable number of the Illyrian population did not move, but stayed in their territories for centuries. This population came to withstand Slavization up to the last few centuries.

This includes the population and Herzegovina and Montenegro, who even are linguistically Slavic, although in many anthropological and ethnological aspects they still retain the old substance of their ties with Albanians (the last Illyrians not assimilated) and the evidence is more than clear.

Medieval chronicles speak of a Arbëror nation stretching from highlands of Herzegovina and up to Etolia in south. A large number of foreign geographers have specified that the border of Albania touched present day Herzegovina. Thus, the prominent Danish geographe Kondrad Malte Brun (1755-1826) writes that: "No geographer has determined the extent of Arnaoutlik, a country that borders on Rascia, Macedonia and Bosnia".

'The country now called Albania is difficult of definition. It was at first confined to the little district of Albanopolis,* (now Albassan) in Southern Illyricum, afterwards called New Epirus....so that in the present day it borders to the N. upon Bosnia, to the E. upon Macedonia and Thessaly, to the S. upon Acaruania and the Ambracian Gulf, to the W. upon the lonian Sea and the Adriatic', says Thomas S.Hughes.

Meanwhile, James Henry Skeene gives almost the same line description:

'Their country extends from the frontier of the Austrian territory of the Montenegro Cattaro round, Which may be considered an independent state, and, following the ridges Which Unite to Mount Scardus it, it reaches the Herzegovina, while it is bounded on the south by the river DRINO '.

These geographers that underline the fact that Albania's borders stretched until Herzegovina have not done only geographical level descriptions. The basis of these claims, have been supported by the fact that culturally, the population of these countries (Montenegro and Herzegovina) are equivalent with Albanians.

Robert Elsie & Janice Mathie-Heck in their book 'Songs of the frontier warriors' underline the epic character of these legendary songs of Northern Albania, an epic which also characterizes the populations (today Slavicized) of Montenegro and Herzegovina. Not only this, but also other aspects of collective behavior of Montenegrins are similar to those of Albanians. Edmund Spencer says:

'In personal appearance the mountaineers of Tchernegora rather resemble their neighbors in Albania, than their brethren in Servia; there is the same nervous, lofty form, animated expression, and a certain degree of saucy audacity in their manners and bearing; they have also imbibed from their neighbors many of their customs and manners, particularly the belief in retributive justice, and that blood can only be expiated by blood, consequently sanguinary conflicts frequently break out between different tribes'.


Even, one of the typical Albanian dances, the Sword Dance (which stems directly from ancient Pyrrhic dance that has its roots in Albanian Epirus) also played in Montenegro and Bosnia. Spenceri continues:

'The Athenian dance described by Homer, although somewhat modified, is still the dance of this people— the " Kolo." Even the " Pyrrhic" may be seen danced here, as well as in Tchernegoria, Bosnia and Albania.'
The marked distinction between the Serbs and the Montenegrins was pointed out by Prof. Savo Birkovic in a recent work: '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980. M.E. Durham (1863-1944), who traveled widely in Albania and Montenegro and devoted much time to the study of Montenegrin and Albanian tribes, came to the conclusion that the Montenegrin is not so much a Slav as a Slavicized descendant of the older inhabitants, i.e., of Vlachs, and Albanians (see Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans, London, 1928, PP. 13-59). hat the Montenegrin tribes were originally Albanian tribes was already indicated by K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).

Perhaps of particular importance is the anthropological aspect of similarity between Albanians and Montenegrins (Slavicized Albanians). Carleton Coon (1904-1981) president of the 'American Association of Physical Anthropologists' underlines the fact that:

'The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe ... are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the Cultural Continuity between the two Peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion '.

----------------------------
1. Appian, The Foreign Wars
2. Nicolay, Prince of the Vasoyevich: 'Brief Information on the Tribes of High Albania,
in particular on the Independent Mountains'
3. Condrad Malte Brun 'Universal geography: or A description of all parts of the world'
4. Thomas Smart Hughes 'TRAVELS IN GREECE AND ALBANIA' 1830
5. James Henry Skeene 'The Albanians' 1848
6. Edmund Spencer 'Travels in European Turkey, in 1850: through Bosnia, Servia, Bulgaria'
7. Savo Birkovic '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980
8. Edith Durham 'Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans', London, 1928
9. K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).
10. Carleton Stevens Coon 'The races of Europe' 1939



U perkthye nga mua, dhe u editua nga Jay_Albanophile
"I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."~Harry S. Truman

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#12

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:19 am

Arta shumë shumë falemnderit për përkthimit. Falemnderit edhe Jay_Albanophile!
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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#13

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:26 am

Montenegrin's - their Albanian Origin

Slavic invasions certainly decreased the enormous territory of Illyria, which according to APPIAN, The Foreign Wars Ill. 1.1) extended from Istrit (Danube) to as far as Chaonia and Thesproti (precisely, Ambracia bay). A large portion of the northern Illyrian population shifted farther south in the rocky mountains of northern Albania, where their culture and ethnic identity survive today, an Illyrian identity which is represented by the modern Albanians.

As Prince Nicholas of Vasoyevich states in his notes: '... High Albania is a perfect natural Fortress that no power has ever been able to subdue or Conquer '. However, a considerable number of the Illyrian population did not move, but stayed in their territories for centuries. This population came to withstand Slavization up to the last few centuries.

This includes the population and Herzegovina and Montenegro, who even are linguistically Slavic, although in many anthropological and ethnological aspects they still retain the old substance of their ties with Albanians (the last Illyrians not assimilated) and the evidence is more than clear.

Medieval chronicles speak of a Albanian nation stretching from highlands of Herzegovina and up to Aetolia in south. A large number of foreign geographers have specified that the border of Albania touched present day Herzegovina. Thus, the prominent Danish geographer Condrad Malte Brun (1755-1826) writes that: "No geographer has determined the extent of Arnaoutlik, a country that borders on Rascia, Macedonia and Bosnia".

'The country now called Albania is difficult of definition. It was at first confined to the little district of Albanopolis,* (now Albassan) in Southern Illyricum, afterwards called New Epirus....so that in the present day it borders to the N. upon Bosnia, to the E. upon Macedonia and Thessaly, to the S. upon Acaruania and the Ambracian Gulf, to the W. upon the lonian Sea and the Adriatic', says Thomas S.Hughes.

Meanwhile, James Henry Skeene gives almost the same line description:

'Their country extends from the frontier of the Austrian territory of the Montenegro Cattaro round, Which may be considered an independent state, and, following the ridges Which Unite to Mount Scardus it, it reaches the Herzegovina, while it is bounded on the south by the river DRINO '.

These geographers that underline the fact that Albania's borders stretched until Herzegovina have not done only geographical level descriptions. The basis of these claims, have been supported by the fact that culturally, the population of these countries (Montenegro and Herzegovina) are equivalent with Albanians.

Robert Elsie & Janice Mathie-Heck in their book 'Songs of the frontier warriors' underline the epic character of these legendary songs of Northern Albania, an epic which also characterizes the populations (today Slavicized) of Montenegro and Herzegovina. Not only this, but also other aspects of collective behavior of Montenegrins are similar to those of Albanians. Edmund Spencer says:

'In personal appearance the mountaineers of Tchernegora rather resemble their neighbors in Albania, than their brethren in Servia; there is the same nervous, lofty form, animated expression, and a certain degree of saucy audacity in their manners and bearing; they have also imbibed from their neighbors many of their customs and manners, particularly the belief in retributive justice, and that blood can only be expiated by blood, consequently sanguinary conflicts frequently break out between different tribes'.


Even, one of the typical Albanian dances, the Sword Dance (which stems directly from ancient Pyrrhic dance that has its roots in Albanian Epirus) also played in Montenegro and Bosnia. Spencer continues:

'The Athenian dance described by Homer, although somewhat modified, is still the dance of this people— the " Kolo." Even the " Pyrrhic" may be seen danced here, as well as in Tchernegoria, Bosnia and Albania.'
The marked distinction between the Serbs and the Montenegrins was pointed out by Prof. Savo Birkovic in a recent work: '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980. M.E. Durham (1863-1944), who traveled widely in Albania and Montenegro and devoted much time to the study of Montenegrin and Albanian tribes, came to the conclusion that the Montenegrin is not so much a Slav as a Slavicized descendant of the older inhabitants, i.e., of Vlachs, and Albanians (see Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans, London, 1928, PP. 13-59). hat the Montenegrin tribes were originally Albanian tribes was already indicated by K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).

Perhaps of particular importance is the anthropological aspect of similarity between Albanians and Montenegrins (Slavicized Albanians). Carleton Coon (1904-1981) president of the 'American Association of Physical Anthropologists' underlines the fact that:

'The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe ... are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the Cultural Continuity between the two Peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion '.

----------------------------
1. Appian, The Foreign Wars
2. Nicolay, Prince of the Vasoyevich: 'Brief Information on the Tribes of High Albania,
in particular on the Independent Mountains'
3. Condrad Malte Brun 'Universal geography: or A description of all parts of the world'
4. Thomas Smart Hughes 'TRAVELS IN GREECE AND ALBANIA' 1830
5. James Henry Skeene 'The Albanians' 1848
6. Edmund Spencer 'Travels in European Turkey, in 1850: through Bosnia, Servia, Bulgaria'
7. Savo Birkovic '0 postanku i rasvoju Crnogorske nacje, Graficki Zavod, Titograd, 1980
8. Edith Durham 'Some Tribal Origins, Laws, and Customs in the Balkans', London, 1928
9. K. Jirecek, "Albanien in der Vergangenheit," Illyrisch-Albanische Forschungen, (Munchen und Leipzig 1916, p. 69).
10. Carleton Stevens Coon 'The races of Europe' 1939
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#14

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:58 pm

Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: SHQIPERIA VERIORE - MALI I ZI & HERCEGOVINA

#15

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:39 am

Te gjitha dokumentet e lashtesis se njohur i vertetojn fiset iliropellazge te shtrira nga lumi Ishtru=i shtruar=Danubi edhe ketej.Dijetaret si Straboni i shtrijn pellazget edhe si rrjedhoj iliret qe nga italia deri larte ne France edhe ne vazhdimesi ne Kroaci e deri ne Krete edhe ne vazhdim zbresin rrjedhen e lumit I shtru edhe shtrihen ne pafundesi si te vetmit autokton ne keto zona.E dhena qe thote se dikur bota fliste te njejten gjuhe, vertetohet vetem nga gjuha shqipe.

Lidhja me temen

ekzistenca e mbetjeve shqipfolse kudo ne mesdhe flet per mbetjet e vetme autoktone..kjo eshte nje e vertet e pamuhueshme edhe e pastudjuar aspak nga shkenca shqiptare.

Per temen une me shume i permbahem te njejtit mendim me Zeusin se: ne shumicen e rasteve shqiptaret u slllavezuan fale fese se krishtere ortodokes edhe vete fjales "sllavo=bekim=te bekuarit"..me paqe me dredhi edhe me derdhje gjaku ne radhe te pare..ata u sllavezuan.
KOHA ESHTE E MASKARENJVE/POR ATDHEU I SHQIPETRAVE

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