"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Ku ndodhet Troja?

Arkeologjia dhe antropologjia janë disiplina të rëndësishme në fushën e historise, sillni të dhëna për to dhe zbulimet e bëra për një vështrim të bazuar të historisë.

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Zeus10
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Ku ndodhet Troja?

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:13 pm

Duke ju referuar letres, qe Skenderbeu i dergon princit te Tarantos, ne dy pasazhe te saj, zbulojme se Troja, eshte nje emer vendi prane Napolit ne Itali, prane Malit me emrin Seiano.
and even today the Aragonese armies defend Troja from the jaws of the enemy. Why do I remember the old things and leave the new parts? If they change the family costumes and the plowmen of the kingdom, and the kings of the plowmen return?
dhe
- With reference to the place where they had the above mentioned battle, the eminent (arr.?) Terlizzi gave me the following: Ã’Referring to the battles of 1461 in which the angioini were trying to regain the Kingdom of Naples, I have not been able to learn if in (agro?) of Troja there is a place called Mount Sejano, where according to Paganel (from whom you have received the piece of information) the rout of the Angioni took place; but I would have to believe that it referred to mount Magliano or Montemaggiore which are two vast holdings in the territory of Orsara, exactly half way on the road toward Troja. Most likely it was mount Magliano because I remember reading that one of the armies was camped onVerditello, which is a separate mountain that dominates the road between Orsara and Troja near Magliano and Montemaggiore.


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View from Seiano overlooking Bay of Naples and Mount Vesuvius
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Re: Ku ndodhet Troja?

#2

Post by land » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:06 pm

troja e seiano-s nuk eshte ancient troy, dmth troja e iliades...per kuriozitet ka nje troje tjeter ne itali, ne puglia, per te cilen legjenda thote qe e ka themeluar diomedi.

LOL

http://www.initalytoday.com/apulia/troia/index.htm
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Re: Ku ndodhet Troja?

#3

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:45 pm

Pozicioni i Trojes eshte shume i debatueshem(nese ka egzistuar ndonjehere). Nje studjues tjeter, thote ne librin e tij:
The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales: The "Iliad, the "Odyssey, and the Migration of Myth.
se Troja ndodhet ne Finlande:
  Let us now look for the region of Troy. In the Iliad it is located along the Hellespont Sea, which is systematically described as being “wide” or even “boundless.” We can, therefore, exclude the fact that it refers to the Strait of the Dardanelles, where the city found by Heinrich Schliemann lies. The identification of this city with Homer’s Troy still raises strong doubts: we only have to think of Finley’s criticism in the World of Odysseus. In fact, it coincides with the location of the Greco-Roman Troy, but Strabo plainly claims that the latter does not coincide with the Homeric city: “This is not the site of the ancient Ilium.” He also claims that this plain was under the sea in Homeric times (this was confirmed by a drilling made in 1977).

On the other hand, the Danish medieval historian Saxo Grammaticus, in his Gesta Danorum, often mentions a people known as “Hellespontians” and a region called Hellespont, which, strangely enough, seems to be located in the east of the Baltic Sea. Could it be Homer’s Hellespont? We can further identify it with the Gulf of Finland, which is the geographic counterpart of the Dardanelles (as both of them lie northeast of their respective basins). Since Troy, according to the Iliad, lay northeast of the sea (another reason to dispute Schliemann’s location), then it seems reasonable, for the purpose of this research, to look at a region of southern Finland, where the Gulf of Finland joins the Baltic Sea. In this area, west of Helsinki, we find a number of place-names which astonishingly resemble those mentioned in the Iliad and, in particular, the names of the allies of the Trojans: Askainen (Ascanius), Reso (Rhesus), Karjaa (Caria), Nästi (Nastes, the chief of the Carians), Lyökki (Lycia), Tenala (Tenedos), Kiila (Cilla), Kiikoinen (Ciconians), etc. There is also a Padva, which reminds us of Italian Padua, which was founded, according to tradition, by the Trojan Antenor and lies in Veneto. (The “Eneti” or “Veneti” were allies of the Trojans.) What is more, the place-names Tanttala and Sipilä (the mythical King Tantalus, famous for his torment, was buried on Mount Sipylus) indicate that this matter is not only limited to Homeric geography, but seems to extend to the whole world of Greek mythology.

These place-names do not have recent origins, but it is very dif?cult to establish just how old they are. Unfortunately, all written Finnish and Scandinavian documents, including the most ancient, are relatively too close to our own time, since they do not date back before the year 1000 A.D. Before this date, unlike the Mediterranean world, there is no written evidence available for reconstructing the evolution of place-names. However, they are significant when they are found in clusters, which make cases of accidental resemblance very unlikely, or when they can be linked to geographic, morphologic, and mythological entities. This theory uses place-names mainly as traces or clues, but it is essentially based on the amazing geographic, morphologic, descriptive, and climatic parallels between the Homeric world and the Baltic one, on which Plutarch has given us a lead.

What about Troy? Right in the middle of this area, halfway between Helsinki and Turku, we discover that King Priam’s city has survived the Achaean sack and ?re. Its characteristics correspond exactly to those Homer handed down to us: the hilly area that dominates the valley with its two rivers, the plain that slopes down towards the coast, and the highlands in the background. It has even maintained its own name almost unchanged throughout all this time. Today, “Toija” is a peaceful Finnish village, unaware of its glorious and tragic past.

Various trips to these places from July 11, 1992, onward have confirmed the extraordinary correspondence between the Iliad’s descriptions and the area surrounding Toija. What is more, there we come across many significant traces of the Bronze Age. Incredibly, toward the sea we find a place called Aijala, which recalls the “beach” (“aigialós”), where, according to Homer, the Achaeans beached their ships. Besides, the name of the Halikonjoki, the “Haliko River,” which runs 20 km from Toija, is identical to the ancient Greek name “Halikos” of the Platani River in southwestern Sicily, which flows into the sea in an area extremely rich in archaeological remains and mythical records of ancient Greece.

In short, apart from the morphological features of this area, the geographic position of the Finnish Troas fits the mythological directions like a glove. This explains why a “thick fog” often fell on those fighting on the Trojan plain, and Ulysses’ sea is never as bright as that of the Greek islands, but always “grey” and “misty.” Everywhere in the two poems the weather–with its fog, wind, rain, cold temperatures, and snow that falls on the plains and even out to sea–has little in common with the Mediterranean climate; moreover, the Sun and warm temperatures are hardly ever mentioned. In a word, most of the time the weather is unsettled, so much so that the bronze-clad fighting warriors invoke a cloudless sky during the battle. We are far away from the torrid Anatolian lowlands. The way in which Homer’s characters are dressed is in perfect keeping with this kind of climate. They wear tunics and “thick, heavy cloaks” which they never remove, not even during banquets. This attire corresponds exactly to the remains of clothing found in Bronze Age Danish graves, down to such details as the metal brooch that pinned the cloak at the shoulder.  
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Re: Ku ndodhet Troja?

#4

Post by land » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 am

Personalisht nuk mendoj qe troja te kete ekzistuar ndonjehere. Iliada nuk mund te merret si burim historik, eshte e kompromentuar shume rende nga hyjnorja per te qene e vertete.
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Re: Ku ndodhet Troja?

#5

Post by Val9 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:04 pm

land wrote:Personalisht nuk mendoj qe troja te kete ekzistuar ndonjehere. Iliada nuk mund te merret si burim historik, eshte e kompromentuar shume rende nga hyjnorja per te qene e vertete.
Eshte e vertet kjo por prap mendoj qe Troja ka egzistuar diku. Problemi eshte qe ne Iliad gjithqka eshte e eksagjeruar dhe e zbukuruar me mitet e tyre dhe eshte shume zor te deshifrohen te vertetat.

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Re: Ku ndodhet Troja?

#6

Post by land » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:23 am

Nuk ke cfar ti deshifrosh akilit qe e zhyti ajo putana tetis, e ema, ne lumin styx dhe i mbeti vetem thembra pa u lagur, keto jane peralla te krahasueshme me borebardhen dhe 7 xhuxhat(ups, na del numri i "shenjte" 7 :lol: )....kurse ne qe postojme ketu jemi njerez te rritur per te besuar this shit.
"They are Nietzsche's over-men, these primitive Albanians — something between kings and tigers."
- Henry Noel Brailsford

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