"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Sillni harta historike fiziko-politike-etnografike, që pasqyrojnë realitetin etnik dhe politik të një rajoni të caktuar, në një periudhë të caktuar.

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Zeus10
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Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:11 am

According to the ancient writters(if not manipulated), it has been a land called Greece, whose name was Pelasgia previously. We know lots about the people who inhabitated that land(if sources not manipulated). Nevertheles, it's not clear what is the definition of "Greece" and "Greeks" during ancient times. Its not clear how different they were from their neighbours Illyrians, Thracians, Macedonians, Epirotes etc. Our goal is to identify them among other ethnic groups, before the so called ""Greek Revolution", because there is something fishy about them, their history looks has been made up, somehow.

We have a Late ancient map which shows Roman' Prefectures in that area:

Image

but doesnt give to us an ethnic description.

So let's start from the earlier medieval times.

476 AD
Image

It's clear that administrative ""Greece"" is been absorbed within the Roman Prefecterum called Illyricum(a name derived from the nation called Illyrians).
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#2

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:16 am

The situation remains the same for many years:

500 AD

Image

526AD

Image

600AD

Image

But since these maps are just administrative ones they don't give any clear indication about ethnic identity of the inhabitands on the territorry we're analizing.
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#3

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:17 am

On 800 AD a new name shows up , it's been called MOREA:

Image

What is this land? This is exactly the ancient Achaea:

Image

This is the beloved Arbanian(Albanian) land whose Arbanians sing such lovely songs(at least 600 years old):

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#4

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:19 am

If we look at the Herodotus map we can locate this Achaea exactly the same place as Morea.

Image

But whats interesting about this map is that being an ethnographic map it doesn't differ that much from the above Roman's administative maps. That means that the so called Greeks are just an ethnic extension of the Illyrians and not a distinct ethnic group.
The term Achaea has still been used in the late medieval ethnographic maps to show the Morea region.
But, let's continue with the maps.
Starting from 1000 AD in any ethnographical maps we find Albanians presence sometime called Epirotes which is a name used by the Latins for the Albanians. But we nowhere could find the name Greeks. These people is just a phantomatic nation during the medieval times:

Image
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#5

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:20 am

Not long before Turkish invasion, and after it, we always find Albanians, but we never find Greeks at least not ethnically defined:

1401
Image

1672
Image

Instead of Greeks we find:
LIVADIA
MOREA
THESALIA
which we have overhelming evidences for, that the inhabitants were mostly Albanians and then Vlachs, Slavics, Turkish but never ever Greeks, except a network of Greek speaking merchants.

We always find them close to Costantinople which was their religious center, that means that GREEK is a religious affiliation and not an ethnic one. Neither the name Greeks nor the Greek language (which was the language picked up from Herakleios(c. 575 - February 11, 641) a Byzantine Emperor for his empire various services such as commerce, diplomacy, religion etc) represents the real inhabitants/language of that land.

1741
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#6

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:21 am

Before 1800 Albanians or Epirotes are always there, the Greeks not. The maps always show territores inhabited mainly by the Albanians(Livadia, Morea and Thesaly)

1519
Image

1598
Image

1672
Image

1750
Image

1794
Image

1800
Image
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#7

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:22 am

After 1800 sometimes the """Greeks""" start showing up , and sometimes they dont.

1816(not yet Greeks)
Image

1834( for the first time we have Greece)(because it's the time after state creation)
Image

1850
Image
If we look carefully the above map there are no Greeks in Epirus, Peloponessus and Attika.

1853
Image

1861
Image

what about Greeks?--Yes the state is created but without Greeks(!!!!) Why? Because
Morea inhabitated mainly by Albanians & some other minorities(but not Greeks)
Livadia Inhabitated mainly by Albanians & >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Epirus inhabitated by Albanians & Vlachs &>>>>>>>>
Attica inhabitated by the Albanians

Image

The maps show no Greeks in the land of the Ancient Greeks. They show Albanians instead. The real "family hearth" of the Greeks is Costantinople(where their religion originates) but not Morea, not Livadia, not Thesaly, not Epirus. These are ARBANIAN LANDS. All the historical centers of the so called Ancient Greece like: Sparta, Theba, Argos are still surrounded nowdays from arvanites communities, who still speak their original ""ancient greek"" language which means Arvanite, and follow their original "ancient greek" traditions which means Albanian ones.
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#8

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:23 am

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#9

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:24 am

They call it Greece but what you see in 1752 is only Morea(Albanian name for Achaea) and Livadia(Livadhia-Albanian name for the pasture):

Image
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#10

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:24 am

In regards to 'Albania proper dicti' its border in 1752 were way far beyond the actual ones.

Albania 1752
Image

Albania 2009
Image
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#11

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:25 am

If someone of you is not convinced yet about Morea this map shows beyond any doubt that its population was entirely Albanian one(ethnographic map).

Image

We must not forget that Morea (Peloponessus) was the cradle of the so called "ancient Greek civilisation".

Image

Now you can draw your conclusion how "Greek" it has been
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#12

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:28 am

One thing that pulled my attention in your flux was the name Albassan and not Elbasan.

Image

I think that Elbasan is the turkish version of this name and his original version like it clearly looks in the map is ALBAS-an, which in roman language means :the white city and is related to the name of the whole country ALBA-nia.
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#13

Post by ALBPelasgian » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:12 pm

Pune e shkelqyer Zeus10! Une mbeta pafjale nga keto fakte te pamohueshme qe i paraqet hartografia per Shqiptaresine e Epirit (qe fatkeqesisht ne shume harta te manipuluara paraqitet si grek) por edhe te vendeve te tjera qe me vone u bene si Greqi: Thesalia, Atika, Morea, etj.
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#14

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:49 pm

Image

Kjo harte eshte nje nga hartat e shumta qe e riparaqet atlasin demografik te Junanistanit. Shihet qarte se ne Junanistan nuk jane perfshire: Epiri, Maqedonia, Thrakia, etj qe sot propaganda greke nuk le gur pa levizur per ta bindur boten per gjoja 'helenictetin' e ketyre krahinave jo-greke.

Burimi i hartes:
Thomas G. Bradford. "Greece." From A Comprehensive Atlas. Geographical, Historical & Commercial. Boston: Wm. B. Ticknor, 1835.
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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

#15

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:58 am

Image

Greece at the Beginning of the Peloponnesian War 431 B.C.
(Shihet qarte se Epiri nuk ben pjese ne boten greke para lufterave Peleponeziane. Te kujtojme faktin se ne ushtrine e bashkuar greke kunder persianeve nuk benin pjese as epirotet as maqedonasit. Nje fakt mese i mjaftueshem qe as epirotet aq maqedonet nuk kane qene grek)

Burimi:http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic ... ar_431.jpg
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