"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

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Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:38 pm

Ky popull, nje grupfis i madh midis ilireve dhe trakeve, ka qene ne lashtesi nje nga popujt me te rendesishem te botes se njohur. Rilindasit tane i kane klasifikuar si nje prej 3 grupeve te medha etnike prej nga ne rrjedhim. Do e filloj me nje element etnokulturor krahasimin e tyre me shqiptaret moderne, e cila eshte :'qeleshja frigase'. Gradualisht shpresoj te sillen shume materiale per ta.

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#2

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:19 pm

Ky web linguistik, e paraqet gjuhen Frigjiane si nje nder stergjyshet e Shqipes se sotme:

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:34 pm

In the Balkans, the Bryges occupied central Albania and northern Epirus,[5] as well as Macedonia, mainly west of the Axios river, but also Mygdonia, which was conquered by the kingdom of Macedon in the early 5th century BC;[6] they seem to have lived peacefully next to the inhabitants of Macedonia,[7] however, Eugammon in his Telegony, drawing upon earlier epic traditions, mentions that Odysseus commanded the Epirotian Thesprotians against the Bryges.[5] Small groups of Bryges, after the migration to Anatolia and the expansion of the kingdom of Macedon, were still left in northern Pelagonia and around Epidamnus.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#4

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:44 pm

In this period, according Strabo inscriptions related to Damastion coins mint, and particularly based on preserved Onomastical trails from latter, it is visible that Polog valley was inhabited by Bryges (lat. Brigoi). The Bryges were composed part of the latter ethnic community of the Paionians (lat. Paiones), the Ancient-Macedonians, Dasaretians (lat. Dassaretes), Edonians (lat. Edones) and Mygdonians (lat. Mygdones). Even the Paionians, although had been an old bronze-aged population on this part of the Balkans, had undisputable connections with the Bryges. The Paionian and Ancient-Macedonian linguistics and onomastics, show large number words and names with Bryges routs, that points to the fact that the Bryges were substratum or base of the Paionian and Ancient-Macedonian ethnical formation.

http://www.macedoniancities.com/history/gostivar.asp
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#5

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:39 pm

Mbi etimologjine e Brigeve (Brigjeve)
There is no certain derivation for the name and tribal origin of the Bryges. In 1844, Hermann Müller suggested the name might be related to the same Indo-European root as that of to German Berg (mountain) and Slavic breg (hill, slope, mountain),[11] i.e. IE *bʰerǵʰ. It would then be cognate with Western European tribal names such as the Celtic Brigantes and the Germanic Burgundians,[12] and semantically motivated by some aspect of the word meanings 'high, elevated, noble, illustrious'
Ne fakt, paralelizimi i 'Breg' me 'breg' te sllavishtes nuk me duket aspak i drejte, per shkak se nuk pervijohet aspak kriteri historik, dmth ardhacakeria e sllaveve ne Gadishullin Ballkanik. Me shume e pritshme eshte qe Sllavet ta kene huajtur nga autoktonet fjalen 'breg' ne gjuhen e tyre, sesa ata t'ua kene imponuara vendesve kete fjale.
Some personal or geographic names mentioned in ancient authors may be etymologically related to "Bryges":
Brygean islands in the supposed Adriatic delta of Istros, mentioned in Argonautica epic poem.[14]
Brygias or Brygium, city in Lychnitis palus.[15]
Brygos (son of Aphrodisios) eponym in Epidamnos/Dyrrhachion.[16]
Brygindara[18] (city), Brygindis (local goddess), Brygindarios[19] (citizen) in Rhodes island.
[17]
Thuajse shumica e vendndodhjeve te vendeve me rrenjen *Bryg jane te nderlidhura me lumenjte (Istri), liqenin (Oher), detin (Dyrrah dhe Rodos), pra njerez qe rronin ne aferi te ujerave, ne tokat perreth, pra ne brigje.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#6

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:04 pm

The Phrygian equipment was very similar to the Paphlagonian, with only a small difference. As the Macedonians say, these Phrygians were called Briges as long as they dwelt in Europe, where they were neighbors of the Macedonians; but when they changed their home to Asia, they changed their name also and were called Phrygians.1 The Armenians, who are settlers from Phrygia, were armed like the Phrygians. Both these together had as their commander Artochmes, who had married a daughter of Darius.

Herodotus, The Histories 7.73
Shprengulja 'biblike' e Brygeve per ne Azine e Vogel disa e shpjegojne si:
-Agresioni i 'maqedonasve' (teoricienet e hipotezes se Maqedonasit ishin greke)
- 'Dyndja' e Ilireve dhe shtytja e Brigeve/Frigeve per ne Azine e Vogel (teoricienet e dogmes indo-europiane)
- Shkaterrimi i Perandorise Hitite dhe krijimi i njefare 'boshelleku' te cilin e bryget e shfrytezuan menjehere kur themeluan Mbreterine e tyre atje
- Ndonje Fatkeqesi te rende natyrore

Ne fakt, keto dy te fundit mua me duken me te besueshmet. Kur fola me mikun tim, prof.Skender Rizaj, ai me tha se Briget u shprengulen si pasoje e nje fatkeqesie te rende natyrore qe shkaktoi shume epidemi e katastrofa te mynxyrshme, aq sa te tjeret i quajten 'frikacak', dmth kishin frike prej atyre mynxyrave te perbindshme te tokes.
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Vete fakti, se Bryget i gjejme edhe ne antikitetin e vone flet se Bryget nuk jane shprengulur nga 'dyndja' e ilireve.
Herodotus also mentions that in 492 BC, some Thracian Brygoi or Brygians (Greek: Βρύγοι Θρήικες) fell upon the Persian camp by night, wounding Mardonius himself, though he went on with the campaign until he subdued them.[8] These Brygoi were later mentioned in Plutarch's Parallel Lives, in the Battle of Philippi, as camp servants of Brutus.[9
ose edhe kjo ketu deshmon:
Small groups of Bryges, after the migration to Anatolia and the expansion of the kingdom of Macedon, were still left in northern Pelagonia and around Epidamnus.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#7

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:07 pm

Do te doja qe ne kete teme te kyqet edhe Socio per shkak se ai mbart nje bagazh te konsiderueshem njohurish mbi Bryget/Frigjet dhe trashegimine e tyre nder shqiptare.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#8

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:11 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Zeus10 a mund t'ma gjesh citatin e sakte te Herodotit kur thote se Brigjet e ndryshuan emrin ne Frigje kur kaluan ne Azine e Vogel?

Po te mundje ta sjellje te plote, do te mund te vazhdoja me konsekuente teorine time mbi etimologjine e Frigjeve...

Alb

une mendoj se si herodoti edhe stefan bizantini e thuajse i gjithe antikiteti ka shkruajtur..por me shume eshte perkthyer edhe ruajtur me baze kultin e simpatis per perandorit e kleret fetare.

herodoti i do si shtegetar drejt greqis e italis,ndersa stefan biznini i do si shtegetare nga italia per ne azi.mendoj se levizjet njerzore jane me shume perralla te sajuara se te verteta..ne se iku nje familje a 10 familje kjo nuk do te thote se u shkretetua vendi nga shperngulsit!!!!

sa per foton e pare qe ka vendosur Zeusi , une do ju thoja se ne te majte sic shikojm ekranin eshte Dii,Dij=Dielli,ndersa ne te djathte eshte "ona=hena ne dialektin e shqiperis se mesme",ndoshta edhe Di-ona ka emrin e djellit edhe te henes!?
KOHA ESHTE E MASKARENJVE/POR ATDHEU I SHQIPETRAVE

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#9

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:20 pm

alfeko sukaraku wrote:

Alb

une mendoj se si herodoti edhe stefan bizantini e thuajse i gjithe antikiteti ka shkruajtur..por me shume eshte perkthyer edhe ruajtur me baze kultin e simpatis per perandorit e kleret fetare.

herodoti i do si shtegetar drejt greqis e italis,ndersa stefan biznini i do si shtegetare nga italia per ne azi.mendoj se levizjet njerzore jane me shume perralla te sajuara se te verteta..ne se iku nje familje a 10 familje kjo nuk do te thote se u shkretetua vendi nga shperngulsit!!!!

sa per foton e pare qe ka vendosur Zeusi , une do ju thoja se ne te majte sic shikojm ekranin eshte Dii,Dij=Dielli,ndersa ne te djathte eshte "ona=hena ne dialektin e shqiperis se mesme",ndoshta edhe Di-ona ka emrin e djellit edhe te henes!?
Po, Alfeko! Citatin qe ia kerkova Zeusit ne nderkohe e gjeta, keshtu qe e fshiva ate mesazhin tim te meparshem!
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#10

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:50 am

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#11

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:04 pm

Poshte po i shpalos disa te dhena te rendesishme te mbledhura nga Socio ne nje forum tjeter, perkitazi me kete teme:
Illyrian and Thraco- Phrygian have vanished apart from genetic traces in Albanian and Armenian.

~Words: an illustrated history of western languages‎ Page 202
Victor Stevenson - 1983
Phrygian was erroneously connected with Armenian and Albanian in past scholarships but is now considered a separate IE language

The foundations of Latin‎ - Page 38
Philip Baldi 1999
It must be pointed out that in 1200 BC all of Bryges did not migrate to Asia Minor, Peonians (Pelagonians), Orestae, Penestae, who considered themselves to be related to them, continued to live in Illyria and Macedonia. According to Homer, during the Trojan war the very same people joined their neighbours, the Dardanians, as well as those Bryges who have already settled in Asia, and altogether with Pelasgians supported the Trojans against the Danaan Greeks. Homer says that the Bryges (Phrygians) were allies of the Trojans who came from Ascania, a city founded by them in Asia minor. The name of this city in Asia Minor, bears a strong resemblance to another city called Uskana, a Penestian town in Macedonia, which is known today as Kercova/Kicevo. Greeks considered these people barbarian, and in Greek art they were depicted wearing 'The Phrygian cap' in order to distinguish them from Greeks.
Notes:

(1) The godess, 'Phrygian Mother', was called 'Cybele' by the Greeks only. Phrygians called it 'AMMA'. In Albanian 'AMA' (EMA) means 'MOTHER', where as 'ANA' means 'GODESS'
ALBANIAN LANGUAGE - an extract from 'Universal Geography' by M. Malte-Brun 1829 p.112

'We now come to the third division of the Albanian language, which consists of unknown roots, or at least of such as have not hitherto been explained; we might at first have been apt to leave the examination of the subject to orientalists, and to suppose that these words were exclusively of Asiatic origin, because they are apparently foreign to every known European language. But as we have ocassionaly been able to account for some of these roots, and to connect them, in spite of their irregularity, with the Hellenic and other European dialects, we were led to conclusion that the primitives of a pure and indigenous language like the Albanian, must have been at one time common to the Thracian, Illyrian, Phrygian and Lydian, and that the uknown roots are not the least valuable part of each or all these languages. The Albanian .. might become as useful, in an historical point of view, as the language of the Orpheus or Deucalion, and might enable us to explain the meaning attached to the names of many ancient people and places '
P.S: Falemnderojme dhe njehere Socion per kontributin e tij ne permbledhjen e ketyre materialeve aq te vyera!
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#12

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:30 pm

Do te doja te ndalesha nje cike ne analizimin e Uskanes peneste (fis ilir qe jetonte ne Kercoven e sotme) dhe Askanes frigje permendur nga Homeri:
Phorcys, again, and noble Ascanius led the Phrygians from the far country of Ascania, and both were eager for the fray.

http://www.greektexts.com/library/Homer ... ng/18.html
In Ascania, the region around Lake Ascania in Bithynia of northwest Anatolia.[2]
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#13

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:51 pm

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country — I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias — when in exile on account of the murder of his mother — and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi. Somewhere near by are also the silver mines of Damastium,450 around which the Dyestae and the Enchelii (also called Sesarethii) together established their dominion; and near these people are also the Lyncestae, the territory Deuriopus, Pelagonian Tripolitis, the Eoerdi, Elimeia, and Eratyra.

Strabo - Geography, book VII, chp 7, (paragraph 8)
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...trabo/7G*.html
The name "Illyrian" (see Illyria) was applied to all the tribes of this stock who dwelt west of the northern extensions of the Pindus range and in what was termed Upper Macedonia in later times, and who extended right up to the head of the Adriatic. In Homer the name Macedonia is not yet known, and the term Thracian is applied to all the tribes dwelling from Pieria to the Euxine. There is no well-defined difference between aboriginal Thracians and Illyrians. Thus there was an Illyrian tribe Brygi, a Thracian one Bryges; some of the latter had passed into Asia and settled in the land called from them Phrygia, whence some of them later passed into Armenia; some of the Mysians (regarded by Strabo as Thracians) had also crossed into what was later known as Mysia: closely connected with the Mysians were the Dardanii, of Trojan fame, who had a city Dardania or Dardanus. In Strabo's time a tribe called Dardanii, then reckoned Illyrian, living next the Thracian Bessi (in whose land was the oldest oracle of Dionysus), were probably as much Thracian as Illyrian. All the Thracian and Illyrian tribes tattooed, thus being distinguished from the Celtic tribes who had conquered many of them.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Thrace
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#14

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:54 pm

Likewise the Brygi and Bryges and Phryges are the same people; and the Mysi and Maeones and Meïones are the same;

Strabo, Geography, 12.3, 50

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... :chapter=3
And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe, as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians,59 the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians.

Strabo Geography VII, Chapter 3, 2
38 Some represent the Paeonians as colonists from the Phrygians, while others represent them as independent founders. And it is said that Paeonia has extended as far as Pelagonia and Pieria; that Pelagonia was called Orestia in earlier times, that Asteropaeus, one of the leaders who made the expedition from Paeonia to Troy, was not without good reason called "son of Pelegon," and that the Paeonians themselves were called Pelagonians.

39 The Homeric "Atersopaeus son of Pelegon"555 was, as history tells us, from Paeonia in Macedonia; wherefore "son of Pelegon," for the Paeonians were called Pelagonians.

Strabo Geography VII, Fragments
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#15

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:39 am

Zeus10, kjo lloj kapele-plisi frigj ngjan tepër e njohur për mua; dua të them që një lloj plisi fare i ngjashëm me të për nga forma, maja e përkulur anash është tipizuese për krahinat kah prapatoka e Krujës gjër në Kërçovë (pak a shumë territore të identifikuara në lashtësi si vendbanime brigje).

Fotografitë për plisin në internet janë shumë të rralla. Do të ishte mirë sikur të gjenim ndonjë fotografi të plisave që i ngjajnë atyre të brigjëve!?
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