"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

Flisni për historinë e këtyre dy rajoneve shumë të rëndësishëm, popujve dhe racave që e kanë banuar dhe e banojnë.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#16

Post by Arbëri » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:45 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Zeus10, kjo lloj kapele-plisi frigj ngjan tepër e njohur për mua; dua të them që një lloj plisi fare i ngjashëm me të për nga forma, maja e përkulur anash është tipizuese për krahinat kah prapatoka e Krujës gjër në Kërçovë (pak a shumë territore të identifikuara në lashtësi si vendbanime brigje).

Fotografitë për plisin në internet janë shumë të rralla. Do të ishte mirë sikur të gjenim ndonjë fotografi të plisave që i ngjajnë atyre të brigjëve!?
Më duket si përngjanë me këtë në Paramithi (qamëri) të vitit 1915 ?
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“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#17

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:42 pm

Arber, sikur te ishte kjo foto me e afert do te dallonim me qarte llojin e plisit!?
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#18

Post by Arbëri » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:54 pm

Provo kliko te kjo foto , mendoj se është zmadhuar :)
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“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#19

Post by Arbëri » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:59 pm

Image
foto te Fred Boissonas (zviceran), ne Epir me 1913.
“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#20

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:09 pm

Herodotus Book 7-73: Polymnia
The Phrygians had an equipment very like that of the Paphlagonians with some slight difference. Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that [u][color=#0000FF]they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians[/color][/u]; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians. Of these two together the commander was Artochmes, who was married to a daughter of Dareios.Φρύγες δὲ ἀγχοτάτω τῆς Παφλαγονικῆς σκευὴν εἶχον, ὀλίγον παραλλάσσοντες. οἱ δὲ Φρύγες, ὡς Μακεδόνες λέγουσι, ἐκαλέοντο Βρίγες χρόνον ὅσον Εὐρωπήιοι ἐόντες σύνοικοι ἦσαν Μακεδόσι, μεταβάντες δὲ ἐς τὴν Ἀσίην ἅμα τῇ χώρῃ καὶ τὸ οὔνομα μετέβαλον ἐς Φρύγας. Ἀρμένιοι δὲ κατά περ Φρύγες ἐσεσάχατο, ἐόντες Φρυγῶν ἄποικοι. τούτων συναμφοτέρων ἦρχε Ἀρτόχμης Δαρείου ἔχων θυγατέρα.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#21

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:28 pm

Po cfare ishin keta ""Εὐρωπήιοι(native Europians)"" qe jetonin me Maqedonet:

Megjithese Strabo duket sikur shfaqet kontradiktor, kur njehere i paraqet ata si thrake:

STRABON 7.3.2
οἱ τοίνυν Ἕλληνες τοὺς Γέτας Θρᾷκας ὑπελάμβανον· ᾤκουν δ' ἐφ' ἑκάτερα τοῦ Ἴστρου καὶ οὗτοι καὶ οἱ Μυσοὶ Θρᾷκες ὄντες καὶ αὐτοὶ καὶ οὓς νῦν Μοισοὺς καλοῦσιν, ἀφ' ὧν ὡρμήθησαν καὶ οἱ νῦν μεταξὺ Λυδῶν καὶ Φρυγῶν καὶ Τρώων οἰκοῦντες Μυσοί. καὶ αὐτοὶ δ' οἱ Φρύγες Βρίγες εἰσί, Θρᾴκιόν τι ἔθνος, καθάπερ καὶ Μυγδόνες καὶ Βέβρυκες καὶ Μαιδοβιθυνοὶ καὶ Βιθυνοὶ καὶ Θυνοὶ, δοκῶ δὲ καὶ τοὺς ΜαριανδυνούςNow the Greeks used to suppose that the Getae were Thracians; and the Getae lived on either side the Ister, as did also the Mysi, these also being Thracians and identical with the people who are now called Moesi; from these Mysi sprang also the Mysi who now live between the Lydians and the Phrygians and Trojans. [color=#0000FF][b]And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe[/b][/color], as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians, the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians
dhe me vone si ilire:

STRABO 7.7.8
Ἠπειρῶται δ' εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ' αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου· τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ ΒρῦγοιThe Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But [color=#0000FF][b]the Illyrian tribes[/b][/color] which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with [u][color=#0000FF]these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi[/color][/u].
por ne fakt pavaresisht se kishin emertime grupfisesh te ndryshme, gje qe diktohej nga udheheqesit dhe krijuesit e tyre, qe me vone ishin sundimtaret qe i jepnin emrin vendit, ATA ISHIN NJE RACE E MADHE.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#22

Post by Socio » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:40 am

Zeus10 wrote:Ky popull, nje grupfis i madh midis ilireve dhe trakeve, ka qene ne lashtesi nje nga popujt me te rendesishem te botes se njohur. Rilindasit tane i kane klasifikuar si nje prej 3 grupeve te medha etnike prej nga ne rrjedhim. Do e filloj me nje element etnokulturor krahasimin e tyre me shqiptaret moderne, e cila eshte :'qeleshja frigase'. Gradualisht shpresoj te sillen shume materiale per ta.

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Zeus, Une mendoj se keto jane shamia te kuqe qe kane perdorur Suliotet !
One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#23

Post by Socio » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:17 am

ALBPelasgian wrote:Do të ishte mirë sikur të gjenim ndonjë fotografi të plisave që i ngjajnë atyre të brigjëve!?
Alb, ne kohet e lashta vete plisi qe ne perdorim sot quhej kapele phryge apo kapele e lirise (sic Zeus http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=79) dhe une mendoj se nuk duhet te fokusohemi ne gjetjen e ndonje kapele nder ne qe do te ishte identike me ate te princit trojan Atis. Bryget ishin shume te lashte dhe jetonin ne trevat e njejta ku jetojme ne sot e edhe me gjere. Kapela Bryge dallonte ne forme simbas trevave ku jetonin Bryget. Kapela bryge eshte vete Plisi jone, te cilat jane shume te ngjashme dhe vetem dallojne ne cep, por edhe plisat tone vete dallojne simbas trevave ku jetojme ne !!
Metutje, kapelen Bryge e hasim ne denaret romake, psh ate te Brutit, qe quhej pileus libertatis si dhe phrygian cap njekohesisht. Bruti vete kishte ushtare dhe sherbetore bryge ne grupin e vet (citimin e ke ne postin tend me larte).
Herodotus also mentions that in 492 BC, some Thracian Brygoi or Brygians (Greek: Βρύγοι Θρήικες) fell upon the Persian camp by night, wounding Mardonius himself, though he went on with the campaign until he subdued them.[8] These Brygoi were later mentioned in Plutarch's Parallel Lives, in the Battle of Philippi, as camp servants of Brutus.[9
Denari i Brutit :

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Ndersa ky plis ne denarin e Kaligules dallon pak me te parin, ne cep, por perseri quhej cap of liberty apo phrygian cap

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One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#24

Post by Socio » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:29 pm

Ndersa ketu, ne pllake te vitit 140, qarte shihen plisat qe barten nga udheheqesit Trojan, Aenas dhe Ascanius dhe te cilet ndryshojne nga plisat e bashkeudhetareve te tyre. (shiko, ne anije)

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Figure: Aenas and Ascanius discover the sow, marble plaque
The ship from which they disembarked is on the right; the sow sits beneath a tree suckling her brood, the sign that they had reached their goal. Roman, 140-50 CE. London, British Museum.
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#25

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:01 pm

Socio je i mrekullueshem!

Keto te dhena ma perforcojne edhe me shume bindjen time mbi ilircitetin e frigjeve dhe trojaneve. Tjetra eshte qe shprengulja trojane per ne Itali e 'ilirizoi' edhe me teper ate: ose me fjale te tjera - nenshtresa etruskiane-tuske u mbishtresua nga kusherinjte frigjian.
Plisi verehet edhe te keta:

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Castor & Pollux statuettes in marble
Twin sons of Leda and Jupiter, they were the horsemen whose appearance led to victory for the Romans at Lake Regillus. In thanksgiving they built a the first temple to them in the Forum (5th century BCE). 1st half of the 3rd century CE. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art. Credits: Ann Raia, 2009.
Keywords: religion, myth, gods
Zeus10 & Socio
Nje gje me habit tejmase: Askani (biri i Eneut) (kujto ngjashmerine me Askanin frigj, vellaun e Forkisit) qe e ndihmuan mbretin Priam ose edhe sipas disa miteve tjera si djali i Priamit) permendet si:
In Greek and Roman mythology, Ascanius was the son of the Trojan prince Aeneas and Creusa, daughter of Priam. After the Trojan War, as the city burned, Aeneas escaped to Latium in Italy, taking his father Anchises and his child Ascanius with him, though Creusa died during the escape. Ascanius later fought in the Italian Wars. Virgil's Aeneid says he had a role in the founding of Rome as the first king of Alba Longa.

According to another legend mentioned by Livy, Ascanius may have been the son of Aeneas and Lavinia and thus born in Latium, not Troy. Thirty years after the founding of Lavinium, Ascanius founded Alba Longa. He had a son or grandson called Aeneas Silvius.
Nderkaq, ne anen tjeter duke u rikthyer prape ne etnicitetin e brigjeve mendohet se:
It would then be cognate with Western European tribal names such as the Celtic Brigantes
The Brigantes were a Celtic tribe who in pre-Roman times controlled the largest section of Northern England and a significant part of the Midlands. Their kingdom was known as Brigantia, and it was centred in what was later known as Yorkshire. The Brigantes were the only Celtic tribe to have a presence in both England and Ireland, in the latter of which they could be found around Wexford, Kilkenny and Waterford.[1]

Within England, the territory which the Brigantes inhabited was bordered by that of four other Celtic tribes: the Carvetii (to whom they may have been related) in the North-West, the Parisii to the East and, to the South, the Corieltauvi and the Cornovii.
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Vazhdojme me disa detaje te tjera mbi Brigantet:
The origins of the Brigantes are obscure, however at least the leaders are thought to have been related to Continental European tribes, either the Brigantes of Celtic Gallaecia or the Brigantii of the Alps. According to an other opinion Brigantes came from ancient Thrace. The surrounding place of the cities of Maronea, Abdera and others was called Briantice or Gallaice (according to Herodotus). From there thracians colonists were expanded to the north and west Europe. Once a confederation of smaller Iron Age tribes in Britain which had become one large one, the largest in all of Great Britain, smaller septs or pagi within Brigantia included; Gabrantovices of coastal North Yorkshire, Setantii in coastal Lancashire, the Lopocares and Textoverdi far north near where Hadrian's Wall would be built and the Carvetii of Cumbria who would actually gain autonomy by the time of the Roman conquest of Britain of 43 AD.
Pra, ka gjasa qe keta Brigantet keltik te mos jene asgje tjeter perpos kolone thrakas qe jane vendosur ne malesite e Britanise (Bri+(t)Ana = forma brinore e ishullit perkundrejt sterese se Europes) ashtu sic e indikojne emrat e disa qyteteve dhe sidomos fisi tjeter keltik 'Parisi' qe na e kujton emrin e princit trojan. Do te doja te dijua opinionin tuaj se a ishin Brigjet/Frigjet/Trojanet perhapesit e emrit ALBAN kudo neper Europen Qendrore deri ne Britani (sepse sic e dime emri i atij vendi qe e populluan Brigantet u quajt edhe Albion)?
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#26

Post by Socio » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:23 pm

Flm Alb ! Por une kam dhene vetem nje mendim dhe mund te jem gabim, megjithate pajtohem me ty !

Lexo ketu cka ju shkruan John Muzaka djemve te tij para 500 vjeteve:
It would also seem essential for me to inform you in this chronicle about the family of your mother, where she comes from and in what manner. I mentioned to you that she was of the house of Dukagjini and you should know why they were the ruling dynasty in Albania. It is said that they took their origins in ancient times from the Trojans ...
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1515.html
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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#27

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:42 pm

Shume interesante kjo!
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#28

Post by Socio » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:55 pm

by ALB : Zeus10 & Socio
Nje gje me habit tejmase: Askani (biri i Eneut) (kujto ngjashmerine me Askanin frigj, vellaun e Forkisit) qe e ndihmuan mbretin Priam ose edhe sipas disa miteve tjera si djali i Priamit)
Alb, une mendoj se Trojanet ishin Brygian(Frigj) ashtu sic jane Prishtinasit apo Tiranasit Shqiptare. Vete qyteti i Trojes ishte qytet Bryg ( apo Phryg) dhe banoret Bryge te atij qyteti pra quheshin Trojan.
One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#29

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:36 pm

In Greek and Roman mythology, Ascanius was the son of the Trojan prince Aeneas and Creusa, daughter of Priam. After the Trojan War, as the city burned, Aeneas escaped to Latium in Italy, taking his father Anchises and his child Ascanius with him, though Creusa died during the escape. Ascanius later fought in the Italian Wars. Virgil's Aeneid says he had a role in the founding of Rome as the first king of Alba Longa.
According to another legend mentioned by Livy, Ascanius may have been the son of Aeneas and Lavinia and thus born in Latium, not Troy. Thirty years after the founding of Lavinium, Ascanius founded Alba Longa. He had a son or grandson called Aeneas Silvius.

Sipas Tit Livit dhe Virgjilit, Trojanet, vetequheshin Albane, dhe kete emer ju vune gjithe vendeve ku u vendosen ne Latium.
Vete raca romake sipas Virgjilit, u ngjiz ne njefare menyre nga keta Albane:

Latin race, the Alban fathers, and the walls of lofty Rome. Rehearse to me, O Muse, the causes

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I pari qe i solli trojanet ne Latium, ishte Enea, qe fillimisht themeloi nje koloni te forte ne Epir.

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Re: Frigët(Phrygians) ose Brigët.

#30

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Socio wrote:
Alb, une mendoj se Trojanet ishin Brygian(Frigj) ashtu sic jane Prishtinasit apo Tiranasit Shqiptare. Vete qyteti i Trojes ishte qytet Bryg ( apo Phryg) dhe banoret Bryge te atij qyteti pra quheshin Trojan.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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