





Mallakastrioti wrote:"tamen litteram latinam habent in usu et in omnibus suis libris"
ku
"tamen (lat.)=tuttavia (ita.)=Megjithatë (shq.)
"litteram (lat)=lettera/e (ita.)=Shkronja (shq.)
"latinam (lat.)=latino (ita.)=Latine (shq.)
"habent (lat.)=hanno (ita.)=Kane (shq.)
"in usu (lat.)=in uso (ita.)=Ne perdorim,perdorin (shq.)
"et in omnibus (lat.)=e in tutti (ita.)= Dhe ne te gjithe (shq.)
"suis libri (lat.)=loro libri (ita.)=Librat e tyre (shq.)
dhe fraza e sakte po te kerkojme ta vendosim ne shqip ben:
"megjithate, ata perdorin shkronjat latine dhe ne te gjithe librat e tyre"
Pra nuk thote perdorin gjuhen latine, pasi do bente " Linguam latinam" e jo "litteram latinam"=shkronjat latine.
Ne kete pjese te fjalise, qe e keni theksuar ...The Albanians indeed have a language quite different from Latin. However they use Latin letters in all their books
... mund ti jepen interpretime te ndryshme sepse te shprehurit i mungon kjartesia decisive.Megjithate, ata perdorin shkronjat latine ne te gjithe librat e tyre
Ne fakt ne nuk e dime se cfare ka pasur ndermend autori, nderkohe qe kemi 'ujkun' nuk kemi pse rendim pas 'gjurmeve'. Per me teper autori, tregon mireedukim qe nuk mund ti lejonte vehtes gabime te tilla.erix77 wrote:.... pra ka shume mundesi qe autori te kete shkruar shkronja latine por te nenkuptoje gjuhen latine..
Menyra me e mire per te zbardhur kete dileme do te ishte zbulimi i ndonje teksti ne gjuhen shqipe te asaj
periudhe kohore por derisa te gjendet nje tekst i tille
Arsyeja pse nuk gjenden qofte dhe nje tekst i vetem ne shqip para 1500-s, eshte sepse mbare biblotekat Europiane, duke filluar me ate te Vatikanit, i kana tekstet e para kesaj periudhe me pak se gishtat e dores. Nga ana tjeter, Shqiperia eshte shkaterruar nga themelet dhe ato pak dokumnta e tekste te vjetra qe akoma ruheshin , u kujdes E.Hoxha ti niste me kamiona ne Serbi, ose ti digjte vete.Socio wrote:[. Rrethanat historike te se kaluares mesjetare na tregojne se gjuha e shkruar qofte ne administrate, tregti, apo letersi ishte latinishtja. Por edhe veprat historike te shkruara nga vete shqiptaret deri ne mesin e shek. 16 te gjitha i kemi ne gjuhen latine. Por sikur edhe, sipas autorit, te ishin 'te gjitha keto libra te shqiptareve' te shkruar ne gjuhen shqipe edhe pse me shkronja latine pse se paku nje nuk u ruajt nga keta shekuj.
Historia hesht ...
Nje liber teresisht fetar, i shkruar ne gjuhen OCS(Gjuhen e Kishes), i shkruajtur nga klerike, qe ishin te lidhur me sundimtaret e te ashtequajtures Serbi.The oldest manuscript book and a monument of Old-Serbian literacy is Miroslav's Gospel (Serbian: Мирославово јеванђеље / Miroslavovo jevandjelje), a 362-page liturgic book written between 1180 and 1191 in a transitional form between Old Church Slavonic and Slavoserbian. It was written by two monk pupils, Grigorije and probably Varsameleon, on a white parchment paper for Miroslav, the Duke of Zahumlje, brother of King Stefan Nemanja.
Megjithese jemi ne shekullin e 14 ""gjuha serbe"" nuk gjeti forcen per tu shkeputur si gjuhe me vehte:Its basic purpose was to organize the functions of the young Serbian kingdom and the Serbian church.
thjeshte sepse akoma ajo nuk ishte bere gjuhe e vatres popullore, te leme menjane pretendimin qesharak qe ate e sollen fiset barbare ne shekullin e 6-7-e.the corpus of Serbian literacy in the 14th and 15th centuries contains numerous legal, commercial and administrative texts with marked presence of Serbian vernacular juxtaposed on the matrix of Serbian Church Slavonic.
por ne kemi pare zero dhe jo 'little', per nje 'komb' teresisht fetar, qe u be komb vetem ne shekullin e 19-e.Little secular medieval literature has been preserved
Justifikimi vazhdon keshtu:In the mid-15th century, Serbia was conquered by the Ottoman Empire and, for the next 400 years there was no opportunity for the creation of secular written literature.
However, some of the greatest literary works in Serbian come from this time, in the form of oral literature, the most notable form being Serbian epic poetry.
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Eshte mese evidente, qe dhe kjo trashegimi, nuk i perket popullit inegzistent serb, por komuniteteve rreth Kishes Sllave dhe pikesepari komunitetit etnik shqiptar, me shume tradite per letersi gojore epike, por qe ju vodh kjo trashegimi dhe u pershtat per ta paraqitur teresisht si serbe, atehere kur per interesa fetare-hegjemoniste, u krijua shteti serb, pra shek i 19-e.The epic poems were mainly written down in the 19th century, and preserved in oral tradition up to the 1950s
The epic poems were mainly written down in the 19th century, and preserved in oral tradition up to the 1950s, a few centuries or even a millennium longer than by most other "epic folks"
Goethe and Jacob Grimm learned Serbian in order to read Serbian epic poetry in original.
gje qe konfirmon dhe njehere qe literatura ka qene e paperdorur nga populli, qe nga ana e tij zhvilloi gjuhen ashtu sic gjithe komunitetet sllave, nga gjuha e bodrumeve te manastireve OCS-ja.By the end of the 18th century, the written literature had become estranged from the spoken language
Serbian literature
Main article: Serbian literature
Miroslavljevo jevanđelje (The Gospel of Miroslav), a manuscript, ca. 1180Serbian literature emerged in the Middle Ages, and included such works as Miroslavljevo jevanđelje (Miroslav's Gospel) in 1192 and Dušanov zakonik (Dušan's Code) in 1349. Little secular medieval literature has been preserved, but what there is shows that it was in accord with its time; for example, Serbian Alexandride, a book about Alexander the Great, and a translation of Tristan and Iseult into Serbian. Although not belonging to the literature proper, the corpus of Serbian literacy in the 14th and 15th centuries contains numerous legal, commercial and administrative texts with marked presence of Serbian vernacular juxtaposed on the matrix of Serbian Church Slavonic.
In the mid-15th century, Serbia was conquered by the Ottoman Empire and, for the next 400 years there was no opportunity for the creation of secular written literature. However, some of the greatest literary works in Serbian come from this time, in the form of oral literature, the most notable form being Serbian epic poetry. The epic poems were mainly written down in the 19th century, and preserved in oral tradition up to the 1950s, a few centuries or even a millennium longer than by most other "epic folks". Goethe and Jacob Grimm learned Serbian in order to read Serbian epic poetry in original. By the end of the 18th century, the written literature had become estranged from the spoken language. In the second half of the 18th century, the new language appeared, called Slavonic-Serbian. This artificial idiom superseded the works of poets and historians like Gavrilo Stefanović Venclović, who wrote in essentially modern Serbian in the 1720s. These vernacular compositions have remained cloistered from the general public and received due attention only with the advent of modern literary historians and writers like Milorad Pavić. In the early 19th century, Vuk Stefanović Karadžić, promoted the spoken language of the people as a literary norm.
Posted by Zeus;'Gjuha serbe qe perpiqej te vecohej nga nena e saj OCS-ja, mbeti e ngerthyer ne te ne te gjithe "letersine serbe", qe perbehet ne fakt prej 3-4 tekstesh per rreth 900 vjete.
Le ta fillojme me te parin tekst:'
Tash, kjo qe ke nenvizuar me larte nuk ka te bej me gjuhen Serbe, i nderuari Zeus, por me gjuhen letrare kishtare, 'SLAVOSERBIAN' gjuhe e shkruar por jo e folur. Njesoj sikurse OCS, por vetem version i kishes serbe, qe perseri nuk ka te bej me gjuhen vernakulare te popullit Serb.The oldest manuscript book and a monument of Old-Serbian literacy is Miroslav's Gospel (Serbian: Мирославово јеванђеље / Miroslavovo jevandjelje), a 362-page liturgic book written between 1180 and 1191 in a transitional form between Old Church Slavonic and Slavoserbian. It was written by two monk pupils, Grigorije and probably Varsameleon, on a white parchment paper for Miroslav, the Duke of Zahumlje, brother of King Stefan Nemanja.
Ketu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlavoserbianThe Slavonic-Serbian language (славяносербскій / slavjanoserbskij or словенскій slovenskij; Serbian: славеносрпски / slavenosrpski) is a form of the Serbian language which was used, exclusively as a written language (no one ever actually spoke it), at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century
Ve re nje reagim te panatyrshem nga ana jote, nje 'kercim' per postime rutine ne vazhden e temes, qe me shume, duket si nje reagim i dikujt qe ka marre persiper avokatine e historise serbe, se sa nje diskutanti te respektuar, ne nje teme delikate. Per me teper, kam pershtypjen se vazhdon ti marresh gjerat personale, duke reaguar me nervozizem, mendjemadhesi bile dhe me tendence ofenduese, ne nje kohe qe une , te shkrova disa postime me pare, qe nuk kam asgje personale.Socio wrote:C'pate more vella ?!!!!
Postimet e mia ketu jane per te miren tende, ore burre, e edhe te tjereve ne pergjithesi.
Pse, o vella, perseri e ngaterron gjuhen me letersine ?!
Po, aq me keq, a i kupton ti keto shkrime te Wikit qe i postove e nenvizove vet ?!!
Une do ta zgjedh nje, te parin dhe te vetmin se nuk kam kohe ti sqaroj te gjitha nje nga nje. Shpresoj ta gjesh rrugen vete pastaj:
Ajo me lart i nderuar Socio, ka te beje gjithe dynjane me gjuhen serbe, sepse ajo konsiderohet pjese letersise serbe, pra e gjuhes se shkruar serbe dhe pikerisht qenja e saj kishtare e ben ate jo nacionale. Per kete une po bej ironi te vazhdueshme.Tash, kjo qe ke nenvizuar me larte nuk ka te bej me gjuhen Serbe, i nderuari Zeus, por me gjuhen letrare kishtare, 'SLAVOSERBIAN' gjuhe e shkruar por jo e folur. Njesoj sikurse OCS, por vetem version i kishes serbe, qe perseri nuk ka te bej me gjuhen vernakulare te popullit Serb.
Edhe njehere, letersia eshte gjuhe e shkruar, te cilen autoret e quajne "serbe", por ne fakt ajo nuk eshte serbe ne kuptimin etnik, por eshte serbe ne kuptimin fetar, sepse dhe serbet i tille popull jane, nje komunitet fetar, qe zhvilloi nje gjuhe kulture liturgjie, ne nje gjuhe vernakulare.I tere wiki qe ke postuar ketu flet mbi 90% per letersine Serbe dhe jo gjuhen serbe. Hapi syte.
Pak njerez kane qene ne gjendje ta kuptojne e shkruajne OCS ne si dhe Slavoserbian, pos elites kishtare, sepse shumica e mases serbe ishin analfabete prej fillimit te krishterizmit te tyre e deri me 1900. Prandaj, harro idete qe nuk perbihen fare se gjuha Serbe doli nga Kisha.
Vazhdon te me sjellesh interpretimet e autoreve moderne, duke ricikluar diskutimin dhe duke injoruar te gjitha argumentat e mia, pikerisht kunder ketij lloji interpretimi. Kjo eshte menyra jote, per te mos dale i humbur nga debati, te cilin e shnderrove ne personal.Kjo eshte te te ndihmoj ta vecosh gjuhen vernakulare te popullit prej letersise. Dhe kaq nga une:
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy16 ... ernIMP.png
Excerpt from: 'Sowing the word: the cultural impact of the British and Foreign Bible by Stephen K. Batalden
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=q0HB ... an&f=false
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy16 ... ar1IMP.png
Escerpt from: 'The history of Serbia' by John K. Cox
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U765 ... an&f=false
E bera kete dhe po te them perseri, serbet flasin zhvillimin e nje gjuhe kulture, te mbivendosur mbi nje substratum lokal qe ne nuk e dime cili ka qene(mund te kete qene dhe shqipja). Elementet teknike une nuk i di, sepse shume pengesa kohore dhe njerezore na bejne te mundur njohjen e tyre dhe per me teper, nuk mendoj se do te kishin interes.PS. Lexo tekstin ne vepra si dhe veprat, jo vetem nenvizimet e mia