"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Si e therrisnin Romanet vehten?

Flisni për historinë e këtyre dy rajoneve shumë të rëndësishëm, popujve dhe racave që e kanë banuar dhe e banojnë.
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Zeus10
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Si e therrisnin Romanet vehten?

#1

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:13 pm

Duke lexuar tekstet Romane, ne dhjetera raste, kam verrejtur qe Romanet e therrisnin veten tusk, gjuhen e tyre tuske dhe sic dihet gjithe krahinen toskana. I meposhtmi eshte nje shembull prej tyre:

Juvenal Satire VI,(Satire VI 184-188, 191-196).

Nam quid rancidius, quam quod se non putat ulla
formosam nisi quae de Tusca Graecula facta est,
de Sulmonensi mera Cecropis? Omnia Graece,
cum sit turpe magis nostris nescire Latine....
Quotiens lasciuum interuenit illud
ζωὴ καὶ ψυχή, modo sub lodice relictis
uteris in turba

Ne kete strofull, ku autori shpreh shqetesimin qe grate romane, preferonin perdorimin e greqishtes, para tusk-ishtes(dmth latinishtes), ai e quan gjuhen e "latineve": Tuska. A ka ndonje lidhje kjo me gjuhen toske??
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Mallakastrioti
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Re: Si e therrisnin Romanet vehten?

#2

Post by Mallakastrioti » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:02 pm

Krahina e Toskanes (Toscana) njihet si zanafilla e gjuhes vulgare italiane moderne te shkruar neper tekste. Pikerisht Dante Aligeri ishte Toskan dhe vepra e pare e shkruar ne gjuhen popullore apo vulgare eshte pikerisht vepra e Dantes (edhe pse nuk ekziston asgje shkruar prej dores se tij, pra prej Dante Aligerit nuk kemi asnje manuskript apo doreshkrim dhe nuk dime si ka patur menyren e te shkruarit apo kaligrafine).
Problemi eshte se krahina e Toscana dhe Lazio (ku Roma eshte epiqendra) edhe pse kufizohen me njera-tjetren, dialektet jane katerciperisht te kundert, pasi toskanet kane nje menyre tjeter te foluri dhe romanet apo edhe krahina e Lazio ne pergjithesi, menyren si flasin italishten dallohen ne menyren dialektore.
Personalisht mendoj se toskanet jane ata me te hershmit, pra autoktonet dhe kryesisht popullsia e Lazio apo Romes u influencua prej grupe popullsishe te ardhura, pikerisht ato grupe popujsh qe formuan Romen.
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Re: Si e therrisnin Romanet vehten?

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:28 pm

Zeus10 wrote:...ai e quan gjuhen e "latineve": Tuska. A ka ndonje lidhje kjo me gjuhen toske??
Pjeserisht! Nji variant i kryehershem i toskerishtes ka depertuar nga Dodona gjer ne terthoret e asaj qe me vone u quajt Itali. Tirrenet/Etrusket kishin nje rremb te forte pellazgjik, pasi qe autoret e vjeter permendin pa lene ndonje paqartesi faktin sesi ne periudha te caktuara, fise te ndryshme do te shkeputen nga areali pellazg (Lidia, Krestonia e Epiri) per t'u vendosur ne Itali. Perndryshe, Zacharia Mayani eshte i mendimit qe fise ilire te cilat ishin vendosur ne bregun e Azise se Vogel, te shtyre nga zia e bukes do te shtegtojne drejt Italise. Se fundmi, nje studiues tjeter (Leonard Palmer) ka permendur ndikimin ilir, qe ka ardhur nga Danubi. Zaten, edhe nje tradite e shenuar nga Plini i permend liburnet si popullin me te hershem ne Itali.

Etruskishtja, per mendim timin, do te kete nje zhvillim te ndare (prej ilirishtes), duke iu pershtatur specifikave te mjedisit multi-lingual ne gadishullin Apenin. Mendoj se etruskishtja duhet te kete depertuar ne latinisht ne dy menyra:

1) si substrat i nje pjese te latineve
2) si pasoje e sundimit te gjate te etruskeve mbi fiset latine.

Ne mungese te nje skaneri, me eshte bere e pamundur t'i sjell disa fragmente nga libri i Spiro Kondes 'Shqiptaret dhe problemi pellazgjik' ku ka prekur ne menyre shterruese te gjitha burimet e vjetra ne lidhje me tirrenet...
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Si e therrisnin Romanet vehten?

#4

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:02 pm

The Tyrrheni, then, are called among the Romans "Etrusci" and "Tusci". The Greeks, however, so the story goes, named them thus after Tyrrhenus, the son of Atys, who sent forth colonists hither from Lydia: At a time of famine and dearth of crops, Atys, one of the descendants of Heracles and Omphale, having only two children, by a casting of lots detained one of them, Lydus, and, assembling the greater part of the people with the other, Tyrrhenus, sent them forth. And when Tyrrhenus came, he not only called the country Tyrrhenia after himself, but also put Tarco in charge as "coloniser," and founded twelve cities; Tarco, I say, after whom the city of Tarquinia70 is named, who, on account of his sagacity from boyhood, is said by the myth-tellers to have been born with grey hair. Now at first the Tyrrheni, since they were subject to the orders of only one ruler, were very strong, but in later times, it is reasonable to suppose, their united government was dissolved, and the Tyrrheni, yielding to the violence of their neighbours, were broken up into separate cities; for otherwise they would not have given up a happy land and taken to the sea as pirates, different bands turning to different parts of the high seas; indeed, in all cases where they acted in concert, they were able, p339not only to defend themselves against those who attacked them, but also to attack in turn and to make long expeditions. But it was after the founding of Rome that Demaratus arrived, bringing with him a host of people from Corinth; and, since he was received by the Tarquinians,71 he married a native woman, by whom he begot Lucumo.
Among the Greeks, however, this city was in good repute both for bravery and for righteousness; for it not only abstained from all piracy, but also set up at Pytho80 what is called "the treasury81 of the Agyllaei"; for what is now Caerea was formerly called Agylla, and is said to have been founded by Pelasgi who had come from Thessaly. But when those Lydians whose name was changed to Tyrrheni marched against the Agyllaei, one of them approached the wall and inquired what the name of the city was, and when one of the Thessalians on the wall, instead of replying to the inquiry, saluted him with a "Chaere,"83 the Tyrrheni accepted the omen, and, on capturing the city, changed its name accordingly. But the city, once so splendid and illustrious, now preserves mere traces of its former self; and the hot springs near by, which are called Caeretanian p343Springs,84 have a greater population than it has — because of those who visit the Springs for the cure.85
Pjeset e nenvizuara jane mjaft kuptimplote. Etrusket ne pjesen derrmuese nuk ishin gje tjeter vecse lidiane, te cilet morren boten ne sy si pasoje e fatkeqesive te njepasnjeshme. Etnonimi i mevonshem - tirrhen - duhet te jete marre me vone, sugjeron Straboni.

Shpejt, tirrenet e vendosur ne Itali do te humbasin fuqine e tyre, duke iu nenshtruar fqinjeve agresive. Kjo mund te kete ndikuar ne tjetersimin relativ te tyre nga bota ilire.

Nderkaq, pasazhi i fundit le te nenkuptohet per afrine gjuhesore midis pellazgeve thesale dhe tirreneve, perderisa dy kampe kundershtare ishiun ne gjendje te kuptoheshin edhe ne momente te veshtira lufte....
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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