"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Nje analize e hollesishme e citimeve te Strabonit

Flisni për historinë e këtyre dy rajoneve shumë të rëndësishëm, popujve dhe racave që e kanë banuar dhe e banojnë.
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Zeus10
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Nje analize e hollesishme e citimeve te Strabonit

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Post by Zeus10 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:58 pm

[size=85]The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country—I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes , some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias—when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother—and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi. Somewhere near by are also the silver mines of Damastium, around which the Dyestae and the Encheleii (also called Sesarethii) together established their dominion; and near these people are also the Lyncestae, the territory Deuriopus, Pelagonian Tripolitis, the Eordi, Elimeia, and Eratyra. In earlier times these peoples were ruled separately, each by its own dynasty. For instance, it was the descendants of Cadmus and Harmonia who ruled over the Encheleii; and the scenes of the stories told about them are still pointed out there. These people, I say, were not ruled by men of native stock; and the Lyncestae became subject to Arrabaeus, who was of the stock of the Bacchiads (Eurydice, the mother of Philip, Amyntas' son, was Arrabaeus' daughter's daughter and Sirra was his daughter); and again, of the Epeirotes, the Molossi became subject to Pyrrhus, the son of Neoptolemus the son of Achilles, and to his descendants, who were Thessalians. But the rest were ruled by men of native stock. Then, because one tribe or another was always getting the mastery over others, they all ended in the Macedonian empire, except a few who dwelt above the Ionian Gulf. And in fact the regions about Lyncus, Pelagonia, Orestias, and Elimeia, used to be called Upper Macedonia, though later on they were by some also called Free Macedonia. But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, [background=yellow]language[/background], short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar, although, they add, some speak both languages.Ἠπειρῶται δ᾽ εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ᾽ αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου: τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ Βρῦγοι: πλησίον δέ που καὶ τὰ ἀργυρεῖα τὰ ἐν Δαμαστίῳ, περὶ ἃ Δυέσται συνεστήσαντο τὴν δυναστείαν καὶ Ἐγχέλειοι, οὓς καὶ Σεσαρηθίους καλοῦσι: πρὸς δὲ τούτοις Λυγκῆσταί τε καὶ ἡ Δευρίοπος καὶ ἡ τρίπολις Πελαγονία καὶ Ἐορδοὶ καὶ Ἐλίμεια καὶ Ἐράτυρα. ταῦτα δὲ πρότερον μὲν κατεδυναστεύετο ἕκαστα, ὧν ἐν τοῖς Ἐγχελείοις οἱ Κάδμου καὶ Ἁρμονίας ἀπόγονοι ἦρχον, καὶ τὰ μυθευόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ δείκνυται. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὐχ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο: οἱ δὲ Λυγκῆσται ὑπ᾽ Ἀρραβαίῳ ἐγένοντο τοῦ Βακχιαδῶν γένους ὄντι: τούτου δ᾽ ἦν θυγατριδῆ ἡ Φιλίππου μήτηρ τοῦ Ἀμύντου Εὐρυδίκη, Σίρρα δὲ θυγάτηρ: καὶ τῶν Ἠπειρωτῶν δὲ Μολοττοὶ ὑπὸ Πύρρῳ τῷ Νεοπτολέμου τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως καὶ τοῖς ἀπογόνοις αὐτοῦ Θετταλοῖς οὖσι γεγονότες: οἱ λοιποὶ δὲ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο: εἶτ᾽ ἐπικρατούντων ἀεί τινων κατέστρεψεν ἅπαντα εἰς τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχήν, πλὴν ὀλίγων τῶν ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ περὶ Λύγκον καὶ Πελαγονίαν καὶ Ὀρεστιάδα καὶ Ἐλίμειαν τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίαν ἐκάλουν, οἱ δ᾽ ὕστερον καὶ ἐλευθέραν: ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ σύμπασαν τὴν μέχρι Κορκύρας Μακεδονίαν προσαγορεύουσιν, αἰτιολογοῦντες ἅμα ὅτι καὶ κουρᾷ καὶ [background=yellow]διαλέκτῳ[/background] καὶ χλαμύδι καὶ ἄλλοις τοιούτοις χρῶνται παραπλησίως: ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ δίγλωττοί εἰσι.[/size]
Ky paragraph eshte shume i gjate dhe ndoshta pak i veshtire, per te bere gjithe lidhjet e duhura logjike, por eshte shume i dobishem, per te kuptuar diferencat etnike midis 3 kombeve : 'Epirotet Maqedonet dhe Iliret'. Do te doja ndihmen tuaj, nese vereni ndonje kaperxim llogjik timin, ne kuptimin e ketij teksti dhe informacionit dale prej tij:

1. Ky tekst konfirmon qe Amfiloket, Molossi, Athamanes, Aethices, Tymphaei, Orestae, Paroraei dhe Atintanes jane fise epirote.
2. Fiset ilire prane tyre Bylliones, Taulantii, Parthini, dhe Brygi jane te perzier me ta.
3. Fiset ilire te enkelejve dhe ata epirotik te moloseve, kane qene te sunduar nga te "huaj". Me kete Strabo, nenkupton qe Kadmos dhe Pyrrus Neoptolemos, ishin helene, sipas nje pershtypje krejtesisht te gabuar bazuar ne mitologji, te shkruesve klasike, se familjet e tyre, ju perkisnin heleneve.
4. Fiset e tjera ilire dhe epirote, kane pas qene sunduar, vetem nga sundues vendas.
5. Per shkak se midis ketyre fise, mbreterit e tyre, filluan te sundonin mbi njeri-tjetrin, ata te gjithe ilire dhe epirote perziere, perfunduan nen sundimin e Perandorise Maqedone, pra u "shnderruan" ne MAQEDONE
6. POR, duke qene se si maqedonet dhe perzjerja iliro-epirote, jane te ngjashem ne qethjen e flokeve, gjuhe dhe veshje, disa e quajne krejt vendin Maqedoni.
7. POR thuhet, qe ata i flasin te dyja gjuhet δίγλωττοί, nderkohe qe Staboni perdor fjalen διαλέκτῳ per te treguar keto "gjuhe".

Tek pika 7 dua te ndalem pak me gjate.

a. Kur Straboni perdor δίγλωττοί (dy-gjuhesh), nderkohe qe jane te involvuar 3 fise epirote, ilire dhe maqedone, ai automatikisht presupozon qe epirotet dhe iliret, te cilet jane fiset e perziera te permendura ne pjesen e pare te paragrafit dhe qe banojne gjithe vendin e quajtur tashme Maqedoni, flasin te njejten gjuhe(διαλέκτῳ) dhe gjuha tjeter eshte maqedonishtja, qe gjithsesi eshte e ngjashme me ate te perzjerjes epirotiko-ilire.
b. Perkthyesi dhe gjithe ata qe na servirin historine, jo ne menyre spontane, por te imponuar, perdorin dy standarte kur perkthejne te njejten fjale. Ne rastin e pare, kur krahasohet e folmja (διαλέκτῳ) e fiseve te perziera epiro-ilire me ate te maqedonasve, ata e perkthejne "gjuhë". Kur vjen puna per te krahasuar te folmet e asaj qe quhet Helladë edhe pse citimi merret prej te njetit autor Strabonit (8.1.2):
[size=85]There have been many tribes in Greece, but those which go back to the earliest times are only as many in number as the Greek [background=yellow]dialects[/background] which we have learned to distinguish. But though the dialects themselves are four in number, we may say that the Ionic is the same as the ancient Attic, for the Attic people of ancient times were called Ionians, and from that stock sprang those Ionians who colonized Asia and used what is now called the Ionic speech; and we may say that the Doric dialect is the same as the Aeolic, for all the Greeks outside the Isthmus, except the Athenians and the Megarians and the Dorians who live about Parnassus, are to this day still called AeoliansἙλλάδος μὲν οὖν πολλὰ ἔθνη γεγένηται, τὰ δ᾽ ἀνωτάτω τοσαῦτα ὅσας καὶ [background=yellow]διαλέκτους[/background] παρειλήφαμεν τὰς Ἑλληνίδας: τούτων δ᾽ αὐτῶν τεττάρων οὐσῶν τὴν μὲν Ἰάδα τῇ παλαιᾷ Ἀτθίδι τὴν αὐτὴν φαμέν (καὶ γὰρ Ἴωνες ἐκαλοῦντο οἱ τότε Ἀττικοί, καὶ ἐκεῖθέν εἰσιν οἱ τὴν Ἀσίαν ἐποικήσαντες Ἴωνες καὶ χρησάμενοι τῇ νῦν λεγομένῃ γλώττῃ Ἰάδι), τὴν δὲ Δωρίδα τῇ Αἰολίδι: πάντες γὰρ οἱ ἐκτὸς Ἰσθμοῦ πλὴν Ἀθηναίων καὶ Μεγαρέων καὶ τῶν περὶ τὸν Παρνασσὸν Δωριέων καὶ νῦν ἔτι Αἰολεῖς καλοῦνται[/size]
perdoret fjala "dialekt" ne perkthim, sepse automatikisht me paragjykim, te gjithe helenet duhet te kene folur te njejten gjuhe edhe pse vete Straboni, i redukton "dialektet" e tyre ne jo me pak se dy, pra helenet kane pasur dy te folme 1. Joniko-Athinasen dhe Doriko-Aeoliken dhe keto duhet te kene qene shume te pakuptueshme, per njera tjetren, derisa Straboni nuk i perafron, sic beri me te folmet brenda grupit, ose me ate te maqedonishtes dhe epirotishtes.

Si perfundim, duke perdorur nje llogjike te shendoshe mund te themi:

-- Iliret epirotet dhe maqedonet, kane folur te njejten gjuhe vetem me ndryshime dialektore.
-- Helenet kane qene dygjuhesh, njera doro-aeolikja dhe tjetra jono-atikishtja, dy grupe gjuhesh qe as Straboni nuk i perqas me njera tjetren, nese do te ishin te ngjashme, sic ben ne rastin e epirotes me maqedonishten. Kjo do te thote, qe helenet duke qene genos, nuk eshte afersia etnike qe i bashkon ne nje komb, por religjioni i tyre monotheist. Kurse gjithe barbaret(iliret, thraket, maqedonet, epirotet etj) duke qene ethnos dhe politeiste dhe panteiste, cilesoheshin komb vetem nga kritere etnike: κουρᾷ καὶ διαλέκτῳ καὶ χλαμύδι.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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