"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

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Strokulli
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Re: Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

#46

Post by Strokulli » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:55 pm

Strokulli wrote:
arberor wrote:
Zeus10 wrote:
Strokulli wrote:
Strokulli wrote:Per muo, «Albania» që dellë në Kaukaz ndër disa harta të vjetra, munt te jete se deften qe gjith Europa Juglindore, për Ptolomeun e disa te tjere?, të jetë vënë në Kaukaz (mbë letër?), se atje gjendet edhe Serbia edhe Athina, etj. ne Kaukaz, tue u perzien ashtu edhe emnat e viseve te verteta te nierezve atje?? Jo qellimisht mendonj, por prej se kthyemit se perapsht te hartave ndoshta??.. Kem gjëtun disa dëshminj të Strabonit, Prokopit te Çezaresë, Eskilit, armenit Ananias Shirakatsi (qe thosht, ne mos gabohem, se Kaukazi - i pare i shkrimtareve elen?? - ishte ne Vardar?! - disa te tjere edhe per nje Kaukaz ne Kostantinopol, ne lidhje me rrefimin e ''Prometeut'??) e t.j. që e përojnë kët mëndim. Munt të doket e randë, por munt te jete se janë banë edhe ndryshime dheografike (mbë letër?)..
Ku ishte ''Καύκασος'' i parë i shkrimtarëve elenik?

(GTranslate):
''Where was the old Caucasus? The surprising answer to this question is a classic antique Aeschylus. According to him, Prometheus advised transformed into a cow goddess Io go, from the Ionian Gulf to the east, to the nomadic Scythians, but not reach them, and continue to the sea. When he reached the river Hibrista, Io was to get around to it, going to the Caucasus, and then go down to the south. So she had to walk to the Cimmerian cape, which is wedged into a narrow sea channel. There she had to go boldly Meotidsky channel and get to Asia. According to the prediction of Prometheus, the path Io had to make an impression on people and keep them in mind as the name of the Bosphorus (the way of the cow). -- This story clearly puts the Caucasus near the Maritsa river, on the way from the Ionian Gulf to the Bosphorus. Attempts to interpret the Caucasus as a modern Mount Caucasus is obviously absurd.

But one could argue that perhaps the words of Aeschylus does not reflect the views of his day for a very simple reason: he simply made a mistake. After all, could it be that Aeschylus made a mistake, excusable for a poet, maybe he did not know the "geography of his day." In this case, however, it is difficult to imagine that such a mistake would have remained uncorrected in so famous (in ancient times) work. However, it does not matter. What is important is that for centuries after Aeschylus cultured people looked at the stage and read his "Prometheus," and from there they learned that there is a mountain in the Balkans, the Caucasus, near the Maritsa river, on the way from the Ionian Gulf to the Bosphorus. Apparently, as a result, for many of them was in the Balkans, the Caucasus, and it is a point of view found in other extant retelling of the myth of Io.
--------

We want to draw attention to the fact that the old writers, that our information about Scythia and Scythians. So Jordanes (historian of the 6th century) wrote that the Scythians or Scythia borders the land of the Albanians. Strabo (1st century BC and then c.) writes that the Caucasus Mountains, where they lived the Scythians, advocating land of Albanians (HI. IV.1). When traveling from Brindisi in Epidamn (Dyrrachium), leads to the Caucasus Mountains or Kerauniya(?). Armenian geographer Ananias Shirakatsi wrote that Vardanes or Vardar river springs from the Caucasus Mountains. Old authors therefore under the geographical concept Caucasus Mountains not understand, we call it, but one of the Dinaric mountain range, located in the western part of the Balkan Peninsula.

Herodotus, who has left us the oldest information about Hidden and Scythians also indicates the Balkans, Thrace, and Scythia. The campaign against the Persians in the Caucasus mountains of Scythia, were not directed to southern Russia, to Macedonia, Prespa Lake and the land of Buddhists or City Water. The most important rivers Likos (Lycos) and Var (War, Wardar), labeled by him as Scythian rivers. He writes that four of the Scythian rivers Likos, Vardar Tanais (Black) and Irgis (Virgis, Bregalnitsa) flowing along the lake Meotis.

From the above sources of Herodotus understood that the main Likos river flows near the River Vardar, therefore Troy was located in Thrace, and not in Asia, as wrongly stated. These facts give us the basis for a proper understanding of the ancient history of the Balkan peoples, as we will see later.

Returning to the Caucasus, where they lived the Scythians, it is seen that the Caucasus is not Asian but an Illyrian mountain. Strabo (I century BC) identified Kerauniya Caucasus Mountains in present-day Albania and Macedonia (VII, VI, 1; XI, V, 1; XI, IV, 1). Strabo writes: '''μέχρι τοϋ Καυκάσου Ιβήρων και Αλβανών, Σαυρομαται, και Σκΰθαι, και Αχαιοί'.''

"In the Caucasus and Albanians live Iberia, Sarmatians, Scythians, and the Achaeans." This inevitably means that the Caucasus Mountains, home to the Scythians is close to Albania and Achaia (Greece).
--------

This same look and find in Procopius of Cesarea, author of important historical works of old, is a unique source of the events of antiquity. He wrote: "Some of the branches of the Caucasian mountains turned to the north and west, and reach up to (land) Illyrians and Thracians...". - And Illyria and Thrace were on the Balkan Peninsula.
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''Latin Caucasus, from Greek Καύκασος, said by Pliny ("Natural History," book six, chap. XVII) to be from a Scythian word similar to kroy-khasis, literally "(the mountain) ice-shining, white with snow." (?..) Image
Strokulli, ky eshte nje studim shume interesant. Nese autoret e lashte, i referohen me Kaukaz maleve te Ballkanit Perendimor, atehere kjo do ti barazonte Albanine e Ballkanit me ate te Kaukazit ne nje. Tani duhet te shikojme me vemendje, çfare perfaqsojne keto prurjet "e lashta", informacion te besueshem apo jane falsifikime per te keqdrejtuar historine.
i will really be thankful if some of you gave me the links of theses sources
I don't remember where I found those paragraphs, but as you can see arbanor the primary sources there, about some "Caucaus" mountain in Southeastern Europe, are the
Prometheus Bound of Aeschylus, Geography of Strabo, some writings of Procopius of Cesarea and some of the armenian geographer Ananias of Shirak.

Ndërkaq, duo me shtuo se ashtë edhe një të jatër Kaukas ("Caucasii montes") që gjendet ndë hartat e Ptolomeut, në lindje të detit Kaspik dhe në veri të Indisë:
Tabula Asiae VII, S.Munster's Ptolemaic map, 1542
Image
bardus wrote:Nuk eshte hera e pare qe shoh se varri i Kadmit dhe Harmonias gjendet ne zonen e Shkodres ose Ulqinit.
http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/34361bp
Bardus, ndë kët hartë mesjetare të vjetës 1598, shum kilometra sipër Albanisë s'onë por poshtë lumit të Danubit, gjënden malet keraunike (me të njëjtin emën si ata në Arbër të Poshtëm) dhe pas tyne "CAUCASII SCOPIDI" (?) -- që përputhet edhe me ata që thotë Straboni për «malet keraunike = ose "Kaukasi"» (?):

Image

"Historitë e vjetra" kanë motet, gjeografinë dhe emnat shum të pshtjella;
mirë se të ndodhunat që rrëfehen janë, e madhe pjesë, të verteta.
Disa dokumente mesjetare, ato autentike, na ndifnjënë me i shtjellë disa punë.

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Re: Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

#47

Post by Arban bArbArian » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:49 am

Sipas studiuesit Niko Stilo Ar eshte quajtur nje paraardhes SHUM i rendesishem i yni qe murëm emrin nga ai , ne gjuhen ton Bë ba bo baj boj buj ban bën bon jan format qe tregojn kryrjen e nje pune-bëme , pra Ar-ban Ar-Bën Ar-Bër Ar-Ben theksojn tregojn per mendimin tim = Të Bër nga Ari .



Por edhe nese vertetohet qe Ar personi nuk eshte i sakt at'her Arb dmth Të Artë Arbërë Artar , ose punues te tokav pjellore Arë Ara Arbërës , gjithsesi Shqip.

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Re: Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

#48

Post by bardus » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 pm

Tek '' Lexicon geographicum '' i vitit 1657 , Fillipo Ferrari qe ka cituar Ptolemene ,shkruan:

Albania, sic a populum colorem nominata reg. Ptol.

Albania , e emeruar nga ngjyra .

Abr- eshte metatheze e arb- .

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Re: Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

#49

Post by Arban bArbArian » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:32 pm

Sipas disa historianve Filistinet kan prejardhje nga Veri/Perendimi nga vendi i 'Pelazgeve' , ndersa sipas wikipedia vendasit / populli i mbretit Pelazg quheshin k-Arbanoi , dhe ne rrugtimin e tyre permendet qe Filistinet ndalen edhe ne Kret , sipas ktij libri ne Kret ka pas nje Mal dhe shum emertime tjera Arbion Arbi Arbis etj https://books.google.com/books?id=M-5HB ... is&f=false
Dhe ja emri i tparit tyre 'Arba' tashme kur arriten ne Levant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba qytetin qe formuan e quajten Kiryat Arba , per mendimin tim Kir eshte mbreti Tartan , Arba eshte thjesht emer p.sh Arban Alban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryat_Arba

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Re: Fisi ilir i Abr-eve dhe emri Arberi.

#50

Post by Zeus10 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:48 pm

Ne gjuhen e vjeter shqipe, egziston nje shprehje, qe mesa duket e ka humbur tashme nje nga kuptimet kryesore te saj, te pakten ne gjuhen e perditshme:

ARBËR II m. krahin.1. Fushë, rrafsh i hapët (në krahasim me malësinë). Mal e arbër malësorët dhe fusharakët, gjithë populli. Bie në arbër zbres në fushë.
2. zakon. Banorët e fushave bregdetare të vendit tonë (në krahasim me banorët e krahinave malore).

Pra arbër, jane banoret e fushave. Mua me vjen ndermend rrefimi i Gjon Muzakit, ku Epir, ai quante krahinen e Myzeqese, nje zone fushore, me e njohura ne Shqiperi. Kjo nuk e perjashton ate, qe ne po kete gjuhe(arberishten e vjeter), Muzakia(Myzeqeja, Molosia), do te thote PYLLORIA, pra vendi i pyjeve.
Por vini re:

Mal e arbër malësorët dhe fusharakët, gjithë populli.

shqiptaret, jane dhe malesore dhe fusharake, por mesa duket, perkunder idese te perhapur, per origjinen tone malore, shqiptaret jane dhe banore te fushave dhe ndoshta emri i tyre, vjen pikerisht prej tyre.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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