Diskutim per etnicitetin e grekeve.

[Mallakastrioti]

E verteta vonon, por kurre nuk harron!

[Arbëri]

...e njejta video me perkthim ;

Greket pohojne: Greqine e krijuan Shqiptaret (VIDEO)
Perkthyer nga Dokumentari Grek stacionit televiziv SKAI per revolucjonin grek te 1821-shit.
Pohimi i historianeve grek mbi origjinen shqipetare te arvanitasve..

[AgrianShigjetari]

[AgrianShigjetari]

Kurse per hesap timin, ky do te duhej te ishte dokumenti ma i mire i shkruem ne menyre profesionale per 'shizofrenine' qe karakterizon identitetin neo-helenik:

[Mallakastrioti]

Do kisha nevoje per ndihmen tende Zeus10, te analizonim disi me hollesisht keto pjese te Apollodorit dhe Skymnit:

"Apollodori Atheniensis Bibliothecae libri tres: Ad codd. mss. fidem ...," -Apollodorus

[Zeus10]

Mallakastrioti, ky eshte ai diskutimi qe e kemi bere shume here, per Hyllejte qe jane ilire, qe vajten sulmuan Peloponezin nen komanden e Yllos dhe pasardhesit e ketyre ilireve, gjeneruan kombin helen te lashtesise, qe me krenari e quanin veten ne pjesen e tyre me te fisme si Ylloi.
E kemi diskutuar ketu:
http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic. ... 863#p18863

http://books.google.com/books?id=QKYMAA ... &q&f=false

[Mallakastrioti]

Para se Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer te kostatonte qe ne Greqi nuk flitej ajo "greqishte" e lashte qe Perendimoret romantike hymnyzonin, dikush tjeter para tij ka shkruar diçka te ngjashme:



Philippi Cluverii Introductio in universam geographiam tam ...

Philipp Clüver, Johannes Buno - 1672

[ALBPelasgian]

Burim tejet i vyer! Fallmerayeri ka qene nje prej dijetareve qe eshte sulmuar pameshirshem prej inkuizitoreve filohelen. Teoria e tij se 'raca e vjeter helene' ka pushuar se qenuri, dhe se 'greket modern jane vecse pasardhes te sllaveve te vendosur aty ne Mesjeten e Hershme) ngjalli terbim t'madh kudo neper qendrat filohelene. Megjithate, Fallmerayeri, shqiptaret e Greqise nuk i ka konsideruar gjithehere si prodhim i emigrimeve mesjetare. Perkundrazi, ne nje vend, citohet te kete thene, se bash keta shqiptare jane mbetje te pellazgeve te vjeter!

Me kete dokument qe solli Mallakastra, del se pohimi i Falmerayerit nuk ka qene i vecuar apo nje trill i rastit. Fallmerayeri eshte mbeshtete nje nje bindje te pranuar gjeresisht ne kohen e tij, por edhe me pare. Te pakten prej shek. XVII...

[faon perrovarri]

Une dua te theksoj dhe ta merni si te vertet absolute ,definitive eshte qe greqishtja nuk eshte gjuhe e skolastikes, kishes as ajo qe thot per ju falmerayeri.
Greqishtja eshte gjuha parashqipe(vazhdimesia direkt ete ciles ashte shqipja e sotme) e nje niveli te larte nderthurieje konceptuale.Faktoret te cilet nuk jeni ne gjendje ta perceptoni ,dhe,si te tille e emertoni nje here skolastike,her tjeter kishe,here tjeter falmerayer eshte fare thjesht futja e gramatikes dhe njehesimi i gjuheve kombetare.
Fatmiresisht gjuha shqipe u zhvillua ne menyre natyrale ,jashte kufizimeve te nderhyrjes se njeriut.Pra dua te them se procesi e zhvillimit te nje gjuhe eshte ndikuar nga keta dy faktor dhe asgje tjeter.

[faon perrovarri]

Per ta ber me te qarte konstatimin e me siperm po sjell tre fakte shume te thjeshta, te kuptushme, per njohsin e forummit pa njohuri gjuhesore;
shqip..................greqisht
................................
qeveri.................qivernisi
kratos.................shtet
grama..................germe

konceptimi i subjektit qeveri ka te beje me ate qe ndjek ,udherrefen aktivitetin e nje bashkesie njerezish , e cila ka qene fillimisht familja ,pastaj fisi,banoret e nje zone e keshtu me radhe ,
pra kemi qeveri=qivernisi=>qe+ve+re+ish=eshte ai,ajo qe ndjek ecurine e aktivitetit dhe mardhenieve te nje bashkesie.
::
2-konceptimi i subjektit shtet=kratos eshte i lidhur me kufjte hapsinore te nje bashkesie, dhe ekzistenca e shtetit presupozon ne radhe te pare ruajtjen e ketyre kufijve, pa kufij skemi shtet ,si e tille kemi;
shtet=kratos=qe+ruan+ate+ish=>eshte ai qe ruan ate
:
3-grama=germe nga aspekti fonologjik nuk ka asnje lloj dyshimi qe fjala 'grama'' vjen prej germe, dhe qe te dyja vijne prej fjales ''germoj'' si pasoje i kodifikimeve,emertimeve ne pozicione te ndryshme te konceptit hapsire.
:
Kjo periudhe e zhvillimit te gjuhes i perket fazes se mentalizmit,shume,shume me hert se kishat , dhe per pasoj kur perdorim karakterizime si atote mesiperme nga disa gjuhetare ,nuk bejne gje tjeter, vecanerishteper mua,vecse me tregojne se jane shume large njohjes se filosofise qe permban gjuha e natyres,SHQIPJA.

[land]

Historians Admit To Inventing Ancient Greeks.

WASHINGTON—A group of leading historians held a press conference Monday at the National Geographic Society to announce they had "entirely fabricated" ancient Greece, a culture long thought to be the intellectual basis of Western civilization.

The group acknowledged that the idea of a sophisticated, flourishing society existing in Greece more than two millennia ago was a complete fiction created by a team of some two dozen historians, anthropologists, and classicists who worked nonstop between 1971 and 1974 to forge "Greek" documents and artifacts.

"Honestly, we never meant for things to go this far," said Professor Gene Haddlebury, who has offered to resign his position as chair of Hellenic Studies at Georgetown University. "We were young and trying to advance our careers, so we just started making things up: Homer, Aristotle, Socrates, Hippocrates, the lever and fulcrum, rhetoric, ethics, all the different kinds of columns—everything."

Enlarge Image

Just one of the "ancient" artifacts dreamed up in a basement in Somerville, MA.

"Way more stuff than any one civilization could have come up with, obviously," he added.

According to Haddlebury, the idea of inventing a wholly fraudulent ancient culture came about when he and other scholars realized they had no idea what had actually happened in Europe during the 800-year period before the Christian era.

Frustrated by the gap in the record, and finding archaeologists to be "not much help at all," they took the problem to colleagues who were then scrambling to find a way to explain where things such as astronomy, cartography, and democracy had come from.

Within hours the greatest and most influential civilization of all time was born.

"One night someone made a joke about just taking all these ideas, lumping them together, and saying the Greeks had done it all 2,000 years ago," Haddlebury said. "One thing led to another, and before you know it, we're coming up with everything from the golden ratio to the Iliad."

"That was a bitch to write, by the way," he continued, referring to the epic poem believed to have laid the foundation for the Western literary tradition. "But it seemed to catch on."

Around the same time, a curator at the Smithsonian reportedly asked for Haddlebury's help: The museum had received a sizeable donation to create an exhibit on the ancient world but "really didn't have a whole lot to put in there." The historians immediately set to work, hastily falsifying evidence of a civilization that— complete with its own poets and philosophers, gods and heroes—would eventually become the centerpiece of schoolbooks, college educations, and the entire field of the humanities.

Emily Nguyen-Whiteman, one of the young academics who "pulled a month's worth of all-nighters" working on the project, explained that the whole of ancient Greek architecture was based on buildings in Washington, D.C., including a bank across the street from the coffee shop where they met to "bat around ideas about mythology or whatever."

"We picked Greece because we figured nobody would ever go there to check it out," Nguyen-Whiteman said. "Have you ever seen the place? It's a dump. It's like an abandoned gravel pit infested with cats."

She added, "Inevitably, though, people started looking around for some of this 'ancient' stuff, and next thing I know I'm stuck in Athens all summer building a goddamn Parthenon just to cover our tracks."

Nguyen-Whiteman acknowledged she was also tasked with altering documents ranging from early Bibles to the writings of Thomas Jefferson to reflect a "Classical Greek" influence—a task that also included the creation, from scratch, of a language based on modern Greek that could pass as its ancient precursor.

Historians told reporters that some of the so-called Greek ideas were in fact borrowed from the Romans, stripped to their fundamentals, and then attributed to fictional Greek predecessors. But others they claimed as their own.

"Geometry? That was all Kevin," said Haddlebury, referring to former graduate student Kevin Davenport. "Man, that kid was on fire in those days. They teach Davenportian geometry in high schools now, though of course they call it Euclidean."

Sources confirmed that long hours and lack of sleep took their toll on Davenport, and after the lukewarm reception of his work on homoeroticism in Spartan military, he left the group.

In a statement expressing their "profound apologies" for misleading the world on the subject of antiquity for almost 40 years, the historians expressed hope that their work would survive on its own merits.

"It would be a shame to see humanity abandon achievements such as heliocentrism and the plays of Aeschylus just because of their origin," the statement read in part. "Moreover, we have some rather disappointing things to tell you about the pyramids, the works of Leonardo da Vinci, penicillin, the Internet, the scientific method, movies, and dogs.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... VFa9gG9jMA

[Hymniarber]

Land, ky artikull eshte nje ironi, qe e kane bere filohelenet.

[land]

Land, ky artikull eshte nje ironi, qe e kane bere filohelenet.

pikerisht, ironi debilesh qe ka efekt vetem tek turma qe smarrin vesh,....ketij tr@pit Haddlebury i duhet saktesuar(ky e di por ben gjoja sikur nuk e di ) qe poema epike qe themeloi "Western literary tradition" eshte The Venetus A, created in the 10th century, pra fallsifikimin nuk e ka bere ky asshole qe ironizon por e ka bere qisha e krishtere, anyway, ja pjerdhsha iliaden e shekullit te 10 ketij hihihihihi

"One night someone made a joke about just taking all these ideas, lumping them together, and saying the Greeks had done it all 2,000 years ago," Haddlebury said. "One thing led to another, and before you know it, we're coming up with everything from the golden ratio to the Iliad."

"That was a bitch to write, by the way," he continued, referring to the epic poem believed to have laid the foundation for the Western literary tradition. "But it seemed to catch on."

faturoja qishes foundation of western literary tradition hihihihi, profesor leshi di te beje sarkazma b'ythe,

Author

When Written

Earliest Copy Still in Existence Today

Time Span Between 1st Written and Oldest Copy

Number of Ancient Copies in Existence Today

Pliny the Younger

A.D. 61-113

850 A.D.

750 yrs

7

Caesar

100- 44 B.C.

900 A.D.

1,000 yrs.

10

Plato

427-347 B.C.

900 A. D.

1,200 yrs.

7

Aristolte

384-322 B.C.

. 1100 A. D.

1,400 yrs.

37

Sophocles

496-406 B.C.

1000 A.D.

1,400 yrs.

193

Euripedes

480-406 B.C.

1100 A.D.

1,500 yrs.

9

Catallus

54 B.C.

1550 A.D.

1,600 yrs.

3

Ps. e postova vetem per diskutim, lol

[Zeus10]

Kjo ketu eshte foto e faqes se kopjes me te vjeter te Iliades, qe i perket vetem shekullit te 11 Pas Krishtit:

[Zeus10]

Ajo qe te ben pershtypje, ne Venetus A eshte se krahas vargjeve ""besnike te origjinalit"", jane dhe disa shenime anash tekstit, qe studjuesit e ndryshem te Mesjetes kane lene:



"Çuditerisht" gjuha e shenimeve eshte e njejte me gjuhen e poemes, qe automatikisht e nxjerr ose "Homerin" mesjetar, ose mesjetaret homerike.