"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

Moderators: Arbëri, Strokulli

User avatar
Mallakastrioti
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#586

Post by Mallakastrioti » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:22 pm

Ndoshta eshte risjell ne kete forum, por do desha ta diskutoj:
Pausania ne vepren e tij te VII (Achaea) "Pershkrimi i Greqise" na sjell tre fise apo vendbanime fisesh me emra interesante (fise te cilat gjendeshin mu ne zemer te Greqise ne kohen e tij) te cilet do shqiperoheshin pa kurrefare hezitimi:
Argjiret, Bylinet dhe Arbanet:

Image
Πατρεῖ μὲν τοιαῦτα ἐς τοὺς προγόνους ὑπάρχοντα ἦν: ἰδίᾳ δὲ ἀνὰ χρόνον Πατρεῖς διέβησαν ἐς Αἰτωλίαν Ἀχαιῶν μόνοι κατὰ φιλίαν τὴν Αἰτωλῶν, τὸν πόλεμόν σφισι τὸν πρὸς Γαλάτας συνδιοίσοντες. προσπταίσαντες δ᾽ ἐν ταῖς μάχαις λόγου μειζόνως καὶ ὑπὸ πενίας ἅμα οἱ πολλοὶ πιεζόμενοι Πάτρας μὲν πλὴν ὀλίγων τινῶν ἐκλείπουσιν: οἱ δὲ ἄλλοι κατὰ χώραν ὑπὸ φιλεργίας ἐσκεδάσθησαν καὶ πολίσματα παρὲξ αὐτὰς Πάτρας τοσάδε ἄλλα ᾤκησαν, Μεσάτιν καὶ Ἄνθειαν καὶ Βολίνην καὶ Ἀργυρᾶν τε καὶ ἌρβανSuch was the genealogy of Patreus. In course of time the people of Patrae on their own account crossed into Aetolia; they did this out of friendship for the Aetolians, to help them in their war with the Gauls, and no other Achaeans joined them. But suffering unspeakable disasters in the fighting, and most of them being also crushed by poverty, all with the exception of a few left Patrae, and scattered, owing to their love of agriculture, up and down the country, dwelling in, besides Patrae, the following towns: Mesatis, Antheia, Bolina, Argyra and Arba.
Image

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4185
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#587

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:11 pm

Keto jane qytetet qe mendohet qe ndodheshin ne Akainë e lashte:

Image

Per ca arsye, qe helenistet, nuk na i shpjegojne, akejte dhe iliret i emertonin qytetet e tyre me te njejtat emra, njeri prej te cileve, perkon me emrin mesjetar te vete shqiptareve.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4185
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#588

Post by Zeus10 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Ne librin Philologikos Syllogos Parnassos, Volume 1, autori, duke ju referuar Anna Komnenes, shkruan:

Image

Ίλλυρομακεδονικοηπειρωτικοΰ λαοΰ άναφανέν ΰπό τό όνομα Αλβανοί η Άρβανϊται (Αννα Κομνηνη σελ. 132 )

Popujt Iliro-maqedon-epirotik shfaqen nen emrin Albanian apo Arvanit(Ana Komnena faqe 132)

Ngelet per te pare, nese ky eshte nje interpretim i autorit, apo eshte nje konstatim i Ana Komnenes, ne ligjerate te drejte.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

amathia
Regular Member
Regular Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:59 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#589

Post by amathia » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:33 am

a mun m'nimue dikus per kt tekst :

para falem neroj....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Mallakastrioti
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#590

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:38 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Ne librin Philologikos Syllogos Parnassos, Volume 1, autori, duke ju referuar Anna Komnenes, shkruan:

Image

Ίλλυρομακεδονικοηπειρωτικοΰ λαοΰ άναφανέν ΰπό τό όνομα Αλβανοί η Άρβανϊται (Αννα Κομνηνη σελ. 132 )

Popujt Iliro-maqedon-epirotik shfaqen nen emrin Albanian apo Arvanit(Ana Komnena faqe 132)

Ngelet per te pare, nese ky eshte nje interpretim i autorit, apo eshte nje konstatim i Ana Komnenes, ne ligjerate te drejte.

Ilirjan Gjika (historian, njohes i vepres se Komnenes):
Po eshe e vertete, gjendet. Eshte nje citim nga vepra e saj. Mardheniet e familjes se Ana Komnenit ( Babait Aleks dhe bashkeshortit Vasillaq ) ishin aq te dendura me arberit, sa qe ajo zoteronte nje informacion te gjere dhe te hiollesishem, te cilin e perdori pa ngurim ne shkrimet e veta. Natyrisht qe Ana shkroi duke u bazuar ne nivelin e dijes se kohes se saj dhe nuk shkroi nga pozitat e nacionalizmit ekstrem, i cili ka bere qe historia te mos jete me fakt por argument...

Image

User avatar
Mallakastrioti
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:23 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#591

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:45 pm

Ballkani i lashte, per mendimin tim, u ofronte popujve qe jetonin aty pak a shume te njejtat mundesi jetese sikurse sot; pra, te merreshin me bujqesi, blektori, artizanat dhe tregeti. Bota e lashte ne menyre te pa drejte eshte mitizuar aq teper sa ne mendjen e njerezve modern imagjinohet si nje bote ku zoteronte arti, muzika, filozofia etj.,por diçka e tille jo vetem nuk eshte e vertet, por edhe pa baza.
Cfare u ofronte territori i Ballkanit popullsive qe banonin aty? Ne se eshte e vertet qe popullsite ishin popullsi baritore (blektorale) apo bujqesore, atehere edhe emrat e fiseve qe banonin aty duhet te kishin lidhje me çka merreshin keto fise.Pra, nuk kemi perse te mos marim si te mireqene tezen qe emrat e fiseve Ilire, Maqedonase apo Epirote (dhe pjeserisht ndoshta edhe ato Helene) kishin lidhje me kafshet (shtepiake dhe jo) qe popullonin kete gadishull. Ne se eshte e vertet qe toponimi Ulqin, cilesuar si fjale ilire, ka nje lidhje gati te drejteperdrejt me fjalen shqipe ujk (ulk=ujk) sikurse fjala Taulant (Ταυλάντιοι) me fjalen shqipe "dallandyshe" (Τα(υ)λάντ), apo emri i fisit te Dalmateve (me fjalen shqipe delmë, dele), atehere nuk kemi arsye qe kete kriter te mos e perdorim edhe per emrat e fiseve te tjera (sigurisht aty ku do ishte e mundur te aplikohej diçka e tille) te cilat ne se do i verenim me kujdes mbartin keto tipare.
Le ta nisim me disa emra fisesh Ilire si me poshte:

Deretini/ Derriopes (Δερρίοπες)

DERR m.
1. Kafshë shtëpiake me trup e me qafë të trashë, me këmbë të shkurtra e me turi të zgjatur, që rritet për t'i marrë mishin, dhjamin e kreshtën

Dasaretet (Δασσαρῆται)

DASH m.
1. Mashkulli i deles. Dash i bardhë (i zi). Dash i egër dash me brirë të përkulur që rron zakonisht në pllajat e maleve të larta

Deuri/Derrioi
(shih fjalen "derr")

Dyestes/Dyestae [Δυέσται)

DHISHKË f.
Dele e murrme.

Damastion ( Δαμάστιον)

DEM m.
1. Viç dy-tre vjeç; ka i ri dhe i patredhur, që mbahet për ndërzim. Dem i fortë.
Dem race (damazi). Demat e ndërzimit.

(Damas-tion <---> damazi=interesante kjo pike)

Enkelei ( Ἐγχελεῖς))

NGJALË f.
1. zool. Peshk që rron në det dhe në ujëra të ëmbla, me trup të gjatë e të hollë si të gjarprit, pa luspa e me mish të shijshëm. Ngjalë lumi (liqeni)

Baridustae

BARI I m.
1. Ai që kullot, që ruan dhe që mbarështon bagëtinë, çoban. Bari lopësh (dhensh, dhish, derrash).

Breuket (Βρεῦκοι)

BRIKOÇ mb.
1. Që ka një bri të thyer, briçe (për kafshë). Ka brikoç. Dhi brikoçe.
2. Përd. em. sipas kuptimit të mbiemrit.
BRIKULAÇ mb.
1. Që i ka brirët përpara e të kthyer si kulaç (për dhi, lopë etj.). Dash brikulaç.
2. Përd. em. sipas kuptimit të mbiemrit.

Mazaioi (Μαζαῖοι)

MËZ m.
Pjella e pelës; kalë i ri dy a tre vjeç. Polli (bëri) pela një mëz. Mëz i bardhë (balash). Kërcen si mëz.
MËZAK m.
Viç mashkull gjashtë deri dymbëdhjetë muajsh.
MËZAT m.
Viç mashkull nga një deri në tre vjeç; dem i ri, ka i patredhur.
MËZATOR m.
Mëzat.
MËZATORE f.
1. Viçe një deri tri vjeçe ose deri sa pjell.
2. shih MËZOR/E,~JA 1.

...vazhdojme me tej me fiset e tjera epirote, maqedonase etj .
Image

User avatar
TeuAL
Honored Member
Honored Member
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:28 am
Gender: Female

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#592

Post by TeuAL » Mon May 04, 2015 10:20 am

Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harta ngjitur eshte nga libri qe tregohet me lart. Ne kete histori autori eshte bazuar ne shkrimet e Ptolemeut, qe u be sundues i Egjiptit pas Lekes, si edhe ne shkrimet e arkitektit te Lekes, Aristobulus.

Pyetje: 'Agrianes' dhe 'Triballians' (ne harte) a jane pjese e Dardaneve ?

shenim:
1. permendet Syrmus, mbret i Triballian-eve
2. permendet Langaros, mbret i Agrianeve
3. Leka i shpreh deshiren Langaros qe te lidhe ne martese motren e tij Iliro-Maqedone Cyna me Langarus -in, Cyna eshte vajza e Filipit dhe gruas se tij Audata, Ilire prej 'Autariates'
4. permendet, ne spjegimet, fakti qe nena e Arrianus eshte me origjine nga 'Agrianes' dhe prej ketu edhe emri Arrian i historianit
5. takimet e Lekes me popujt e Ballkanit, qe tregohen ne harte, jane ngjarje te viteve 335 dhe 334 B.C.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TeuAL
Honored Member
Honored Member
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:28 am
Gender: Female

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#593

Post by TeuAL » Fri May 08, 2015 5:51 am

TeuAL wrote:Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shenim:

4. permendet, ne spjegimet, fakti qe nena e Arrianus eshte me origjine nga 'Agrianes' dhe prej ketu edhe emri Arrian i historianit
================= Ndreqje ===================

Shenimi #4. me lart nuk qendron sepse eshte bere pasi kisha lexuar gabim < 'gens'_Agria > ne vend te shprehjes se sakte < 'gens'_Arria > sic tregohet ne ngjitje( fleta nr. 14 nga libri i Arrian ).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TeuAL
Honored Member
Honored Member
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:28 am
Gender: Female

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#594

Post by TeuAL » Fri May 08, 2015 6:10 am

TeuAL wrote:Popujt e Ballkanit ne librin "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harta ngjitur eshte nga libri qe tregohet me lart. Ne kete histori autori eshte bazuar ne shkrimet e Ptolemeut, qe u be sundues i Egjiptit pas Lekes, si edhe ne shkrimet e arkitektit te Lekes, Aristobulus.

shenim:
1. permendet Syrmus, mbret i Triballian-eve
2. permendet Langaros, mbret i Agrianeve
3. Leka i shpreh deshiren Langaros qe te lidhe ne martese motren e tij Iliro-Maqedone Cyna me Langaros -in, Cyna eshte vajza e Filipit dhe gruas se tij Audata, Ilire prej 'Autariates'
=====================================
Ngjitjet jane ( fletet nr.49 - 50 ) nga libri "Fushatat e Aleksandrit te Madh" shkruar nga Flavius Arrianus (90 AD -- 180 AD) dhe tregojne per ate cka eshte thene ne shenimet #1, #2, dhe #3 qe citohen me larte.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#595

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:19 pm

Me duhet nji perkthim ma i sakte e me kuptimplot per kete pasazh:

προς μεν τους οὐχ ὑπολαμβάνοντας εἰναι την Θετταλίαν τῆς 'Ελλαδος, οὐδε τους Θετταλούς, ''Ελληνος ἀπογόνους οντας, ἑλληνιζειν ἐπι τοσοῦτον εἰρήσθώ

me aq sa guxoj me e perkthye del pak a shume kjo:

nuk asht si thone ata qe Thesalia asht Heladë, as Thesali nuk asht pasardhes i Helenit, edhe pse deri aty flitet greqisht.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4185
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#596

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:02 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Me duhet nji perkthim ma i sakte e me kuptimplot per kete pasazh:

προς μεν τους οὐχ ὑπολαμβάνοντας εἰναι την Θετταλίαν τῆς 'Ελλαδος, οὐδε τους Θετταλούς, ''Ελληνος ἀπογόνους οντας, ἑλληνιζειν ἐπι τοσοῦτον εἰρήσθώ

me aq sa guxoj me e perkthye del pak a shume kjo:

nuk asht si thone ata qe Thesalia asht Heladë, as Thesali nuk asht pasardhes i Helenit, edhe pse deri aty flitet greqisht.
Kjo eshte shkeputur nga Heraclitus Criticus

Ai thote, qe ne kuptimin e ngushte te fjales, nuk eshte Thesalia pjese e Greqise, por eshte Greqia pjese e Thesalise :
Let this suffice as an answer to those who do not believe that Thessaly is part of Hellas, north at the Thessalians, though they are the descendents of Hellen, speak Greek. Having set the boundary of Hellas at the outlet of Thessaly and by Homoliumin Magnesia, we have completed our treatise and conclude our account.
sepse Hellas, dikur paskesh qene vetem nje qytet i vogel ne Thesali
For Greece(Hellas) was once just a town in olden days, named for Hellen, the son of Zeus, and founded by him, being part of the territory of Thessaly, lying between Pharsalus and the city of the Melitaeans. So Hellenes are those whoare descended from Hellen and speak the Hellenic language inherited from Hellen.ἡ γὰρ ῾Ελλὰς, τὸ παλαιὸν οὖσά ποτε πόλις, ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος τοῦ ∆ιὸς ἐκλήθη τε καὶἐκτίσθη, τῆς τῶν Θετταλῶν οὖσα χώρας, ἀνὰ µέσον Φαρσάλου τε κειµένη καὶτῆς τῶν Μελιταιέων πόλεως. ῞Ελληνες µὲν γάρ εἰσιν τῶι γένει καὶ ταῖς φωναῖςἑ ηνίζουσιν ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος·
ἡ δὲ καλουµένη νῦν ῾Ε῾λλὰς λέγεται µὲν, οὐ µέντοι ἐστί. τὸ γὰρ ἑηνίζειν ἐγὼεἶναί φηµι οὐκ ἐν τῶι διαλέγεσθαι ὀρθῶς ἀ’ ἐν τῶι γένει τῆς φωνῆς. αὕτη (δ’) ἐστὶν ἀφ’ ῞Ελληνος. ἡ δὲ ῾Ελλὰς ἐν Θετταλίαι κεῖται. ἐκείνους οὖν ἐροῦµεν τὴν῾Ελλάδα κατοικεῖν καὶ ταῖςφωναῖςἑηνίζειν. εἰδὲ καὶ κατὰ τὸ ἴδιον τοῦ γένους τῆς Θετταλίας ἡ ῾Ελλάς ἐστι, δίκαιον καὶ κατὰ τὸ κοινὸν,ὡς νῦν ὀνοµάζονται ῞Ελληνες, τῆς ῾Εάδος αὐτὴν εἶναι.[color=#4040FF]What is presently called Greece is a word, but not a reality[/color], for I maintain that ‘to hellenize’ or ‘speak Greek’ is not a matter of correct pronunciation but concerns the origin of the word. The word derives from Hellen. Hellas lies in Thessaly. Accordingly we shall say that those men inhabit Hellas, and ‘hellenize’ in their speech. Even if Hellas is a part of Thessaly with respect to its specific origins, it is appropriate in a general sense to take Thessaly as a part of Hellas, given the way the term ‘Hellenes’ is now used.
por tani vete Thesalia, mund te quhet pjese e Greqise, megjithese vete Greqia nuk eshte nje realitet(ne ate kohe), por vetem nje kuptim(fjale).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#597

Post by ALBPelasgian » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:04 pm

Falemnderit Zeus,

Kjo e Heraclides Criticus asht vertete interesante. Nga nji artikull online per po kete autor, thuhej se ai - megjithe perpjekjen - nuk arriti te jepte nji perkufizim gjitheperfshires per domethanien e identitetit helen ne kohen e tij. Ai thote qe helene jane pasardhesit e Helenit (kriteri i prejardhjes mitike) dhe foles te helenishtes (kriteri gjuhesor), por nuk arrin te permbledh edhe kritere te tjera kuintesenciale per nji etni. Cka m'u duk vecmas interesant ne fragmentin qe solle asht edhe ky pasus:

τὴν δὲ῾Ελλάδα ἀφορίσαντες ἕως τῶν Θετταλῶν στοµίου καὶ τοῦ Μαγνήτων῾Οµολίου , τὴνδιήγησιν πεποιηµένοι , καταπαύ o µεν τὸν λόγον .

Ky njoftim gjen perputhje edhe me pershkrimet e Strabonit dhe disa te tjereve, sipas te cileve, Thesalia shenonte kufirin ma verior te botes greke. Per Strabonin, lumi Pene formonte kufirin ndares midis Maqedonise (jo-greke) dhe Thesalise e Magnetise (ne momentin e dhane historik, greke).
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4185
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#598

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:53 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:Falemnderit Zeus,

Kjo e Heraclides Criticus asht vertete interesante. Nga nji artikull online per po kete autor, thuhej se ai - megjithe perpjekjen - nuk arriti te jepte nji perkufizim gjitheperfshires per domethanien e identitetit helen ne kohen e tij. Ai thote qe helene jane pasardhesit e Helenit (kriteri i prejardhjes mitike) dhe foles te helenishtes (kriteri gjuhesor), por nuk arrin te permbledh edhe kritere te tjera kuintesenciale per nji etni.
Ndryshe nga cdo shtet tjeter i lashtesise, pavaresisht kritereve etnike apo jo, ne formimin e tyre, e ashtequajtura Hellada, asnjehere nuk u konfigurua ne rangun e nje shteti. Vete ky autor kur thote:
  ἡ δὲ καλουµένη νῦν ῾Ε῾λλὰς λέγεται µὲν, οὐ µέντοι ἐστί.
ajo qe ne tani e therrasim Hellade, eshte vecse nje mendim, nuk eshte realitet  
eshte i vetedijshem, se ky vend imagjinar, shpreh me shume nje deshire, se sa nje bashkesi etnike, qe mund te ngrihet ne rangun e nje kombi. Ky 'komb" eshte ngritur, vetem nga nje varg mitik i Homerit

Νῦν αὖ τοὺς ὅσσοι τὸ Πελασγικὸν Ἄργος ἔναιον, οἵ τ' Ἄλον οἵ τ' Ἀλόπην οἵ τε Τρηχῖνα νέμοντο,
οἵ τ' εἶχον Φθίην ἠδ' Ἑλλάδα καλλιγύναικα, Μυρμιδόνες δὲ καλεῦντο καὶ Ἕλληνες καὶ Ἀχαιοί, τῶν αὖ πεντήκοντα νεῶν ἦν ἀρχὸς Ἀχιλλεύς.


ne koken e ketyre autoreve "antike". Ata as e kane idene, se kush jane Helenet dhe prej nga vine
Cka m'u duk vecmas interesant ne fragmentin qe solle asht edhe ky pasus:

τὴν δὲ῾Ελλάδα ἀφορίσαντες ἕως τῶν Θετταλῶν στοµίου καὶ τοῦ Μαγνήτων῾Οµολίου , τὴνδιήγησιν πεποιηµένοι , καταπαύ o µεν τὸν λόγον .

Ky njoftim gjen perputhje edhe me pershkrimet e Strabonit dhe disa te tjereve, sipas te cileve, Thesalia shenonte kufirin ma verior te botes greke. Per Strabonin, lumi Pene formonte kufirin ndares midis Maqedonise (jo-greke) dhe Thesalise e Magnetise (ne momentin e dhane historik, greke).
Kjo harte e pershkruan pak a shume ate qe thone autoret e vjeter, une zgjodha Pseudo-Skylax:

Image
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
Zeus10
Grand Fighter Member
Grand Fighter Member
Posts: 4185
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 pm
Gender: Male
Location: CANADA
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#599

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:53 pm

Do e perdor harten e mesiperme, per te bere nje koment, rreth nje pershkrimi te Pausanit, per pushtimet Gale:
οἱ δὲ Γαλάται οὗτοι νέμονται τῆς Εὐρώπης τὰ ἔσχατα ἐπὶ θαλάσσῃ πολλῇ καὶ ἐς τὰ πέρατα οὐ πλωίμῳ, παρέχεται δὲ ἄμπωτιν καὶ ῥαχίαν καὶ θηρία οὐδὲν ἐοικότα τοῖς ἐν θαλάσσῃ τῇ λοιπῇ: καί σφισι διὰ τῆς χώρας ῥεῖ ποταμὸς Ἠριδανός, ἐφ᾽ ᾧ τὰς θυγατέρας τὰς Ἡλίου ὀδύρεσθαι νομίζουσι τὸ περὶ τὸν Φαέθοντα τὸν ἀδελφὸν πάθος. ὀψὲ δέ ποτε αὐτοὺς καλεῖσθαι Γαλάτας ἐξενίκησεν: Κελτοὶ γὰρ κατά τε σφᾶς τὸ ἀρχαῖον καὶ παρὰ τοῖς ἄλλοις ὠνομάζοντο. συλλεγεῖσα δέ σφισι στρατιὰ τρέπεται τὴν ἐπὶ Ἰονίου, καὶ τό τε Ἰλλυριῶν ἔθνος καὶ πᾶν ὅσον ἄχρι Μακεδόνων ᾤκει καὶ Μακεδόνας αὐτοὺς ἀναστάτους ἐποίησε Θεσσαλίαν τε ἐπέδραμε. καὶ ὡς ἐγγὺς Θερμοπυλῶν ἐγίνοντο, ἐνταῦθα οἱ πολλοὶ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἐς τὴν ἔφοδον ἡσύχαζον τῶν βαρβάρων, ἅτε ὑπὸ Ἀλεξάνδρου μεγάλως καὶ Φιλίππου κακωθέντες πρότερον: καθεῖλε δὲ καὶ Ἀντίπατρος καὶ Κάσσανδρος ὕστερον τὸ Ἑλληνικόν, ὥστε ἕκαστοι δι᾽ ἀσθένειαν οὐδὲν αἰσχρὸν ἐνόμιζον ἀπεῖναι τὸ κατὰ σφᾶς τῆς βοηθείας.These Gauls inhabit the most remote portion of Europe, near a great sea that is not navigable to its extremities, and possesses ebb and flow and creatures quite unlike those of other seas. Through their country flows the river Eridanus, on the bank of which the daughters of Helius (Sun) are supposed to lament the fate that befell their brother Phaethon. It was late before the name “Gauls” came into vogue; for anciently they were called Celts both amongst themselves and by others. An army of them mustered and turned towards the Ionian Sea, dispossessed the Illyrian people, all who dwelt as far as Macedonia with the Macedonians themselves, and overran Thessaly. And when they drew near to Thermopylae, the Greeks in general made no move to prevent the inroad of the barbarians, since previously they had been severely defeated by Alexander and Philip. Further, Antipater and Cassander afterwards crushed the Greeks, so that through weakness each state thought no shame of itself taking no part in the defence of the country.
Image

Dhe keta Gale, banojne pjesen me te humbur te Europes, prane Detit te Madh(eshte fjala per Oqeanin-shen. im), qe eshte i paarritshem ne ekstremin e tij, me batica zbatica dhe krijesa, si asnje det tjeter. Permes vendit te tyre rrjedh lumi Eridanus, ne brigjet e se cilit bijat e Helius(Diellit), vajtojne fatin e keq, te vellait te tyre, Paeton. Ne nje kohe te vonet emir Gale, u be i modes, sepse ne kohet e vjetra ata quheshin keltë, si nga te tjeret dhe nga vetja e tyre. Nje ushtri e tyre, u mblodh dhe u hodh kunder brigjeve te Detit JON, plaçkiti ILIRET, te gjithe ata qe banonin deri ne Maqedoni perfshire dhe maqedonet vete , dhe pushtoi Thesaline. dhe kur ata marshuan prane Termopileve, greket nuk bene asnje levizje per te penguar barbaret, qekurse ishin mundur keqaz nga Aleksandri dhe Filipi. me pas Antipatri dhe Kasandri, i derrmuan greket, keshtu qe secila krahine, duke qene e dobet, nuk morri pjese ne mbrojtjen e vendit, duke e konsideruar kete veprim jo nje turp.



Ajo qe te ben pershtypje eshte, se gjate fushates pushtuese te galeve, autori nuk permend asnje komb tjeter pervec Ilireve, ne hapesiren Jon-Maqedoni, as greke te mirefillte dhe as greke te supozuar. Greket fillojne e shfaqen prane Termopileve, por dhe ata ishin shume te dobet, sepse ishin derrmuar nga pushtimet ..........e filohelenit Aleksander dhe babait te tij Filip, qe paradoksalisht, nuk pertuan te perhapnin kulturen greke kudo ne bote, pasi shfarosen greket vete ne Greqi.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

User avatar
ALBPelasgian
Galactic Member
Galactic Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Prishtinë (Prima Justiniana)
Contact:

Re: Ilire, Maqedone dhe Helene.

#600

Post by ALBPelasgian » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:44 am

Saktesisht! Ἑλλὰς συνεχὴς (Greqia e plotë) perfshinte me se largu Thesaline, duke lene jashte gjithe Epirin e Maqedonine. Ja teksti ne origjinal:

Μετὰ δὲ Μολοττίαν Ἀμβρακία πόλις Ἑλληνίς· ἀπέχει δὲ αὕτη ἀπὸ θαλάττης στάδια πʹ. Ἔστι δὲ καὶ ἐπὶ θαλάττης τεῖχος καὶ λιμὴν κλειστός. Ἐντεῦθεν ἄρχεται ἡ Ἑλλὰς συνεχὴς εἶναι μέχρι Πηνειοῦ ποταμοῦ καὶ Ὁμολίου Μαγνητικῆς πόλεως, ἥ ἐστι παρὰ τὸν ποταμόν. Παράπλους δὲ τῆς Ἀμβρακίας σταδίων ρκʹ.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

Post Reply

Return to “Historia e Shqiperise”