"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

A ka ndodhur ndonje shperngulje masive e fiseve?

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Zeus10
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A ka ndodhur ndonje shperngulje masive e fiseve?

#1

Post by Zeus10 »

Per te pakten dy fise shume te rendesishme: Lapet(Labet) dhe Byllonet, ne kemi deshmi nga lashtesia, qe ata ndodheshin ne veri te gadishullit:
IA′PODES, IAP′YDES (Ἰάποδες, Strab. iii. p. 207, vii. p. 313; Ἰάπυδες, Ptol. ii. 16. § 8; Liv. xliii. 5; Virg. Georg. iii. 475; Tibull. iv. 1. 108), an Illyrian people to the N. of Dalmatia, and E. of Liburnia, who occupied Iapydia (Plin. iii. 19), or the present military frontier of Croatia.
Pra Iapidet ishin nje fis ne veri prane Liburneve prane Gjirit te Istrit.

Menjehere pas tyre, ne kuadrin e ilireve ishin Byllionet ose Hyllasit:

21
Λιβυρνοί.

Μετὰ δὲ Ἴστρους Λιβυρνοί εἰσιν ἔθνος. Ἐν δὲ τούτωι τῶι ἔθνει πόλεις εἰσὶ παρὰ θάλατταν Λιὰς, Ἴδασσα, Ἀττιενίτης, Δυύρτα, Ἀλουφοί, Ὀλσοί, Πεδῆται, Ἡμίονοι. Οὗτοι γυναικοκρατοῦνται καὶ εἰσὶν αἱ γυναῖκες ἀνδρῶν ἐλευθέρων· μίσγονται δὲ τοῖς ἑαυτῶν δούλοις καὶ τοῖς πλησιοχώροις ἀνδράσι. Κατὰ ταύτην τὴν χώραν αἵδε νῆσοί εἰσιν, ὧν ἔχω εἰπεῖν τὰ ὀνόματα (εἰσὶ δὲ καὶ ἄλλαι ἀνώνυμοι πολλαί)· Ἴστρις νῆσος σταδίων τιʹ, πλάτος δὲ ρκʹ· Ἠλεκτρίδες, Μεντορίδες. Αὗται δὲ αἱ νῆσοί εἰσι μεγάλαι. Καταρβάτης ποταμός. Παράπλους τῆς Λιβυρνίδος χώρας ἡμερῶν δύο.


22
Ἰλλυριοί.

Μετὰ δὲ Λιβυρνούς εἰσιν Ἰλλυριοὶ ἔθνος, καὶ παροικοῦσιν οἱ Ἰλλυριοὶ παρὰ θάλατταν μέχρι Χαονίας τῆς κατὰ Κέρκυραν τὴν Ἀλκινόου νῆσον. Καὶ πόλις ἐστὶν Ἑλληνὶς ἐνταῦθα, ἧι ὄνομα Ἡράκλεια, καὶ λιμήν. Εἰσὶ δὲ καὶ οἱ λωτοφάγοι καλούμενοι βάρβαροι οἵδε· Ἱεραστάμναι, Βουλινοὶ (Ὑλλινοί)· Βουλινῶν ὁμοτέρμονες Ὕλλοι. Οὗτοι δέ φασιν Ὕλλον τὸν Ἡρακλέους αὐτοὺς κατοικίσαι· εἰσὶ δὲ βάρβαροι. Κατοικοῦσι δὲ χερρόνησον ὀλίγωι ἐλάσσω τῆς Πελοποννήσου. Ἀπὸ δὲ <Χ>ερρονήσου <Σίσσα νῆσος> παρα<τείνει ὡ>ς τ<αι>νίον ὀρθόν· ταύτην παροικοῦσι Βουλινοί. Βουλινοὶ δ᾽ εἰσὶν ἔθνος Ἰλλυρικόν. Παράπλους δ᾽ ἐστὶ τῆς Βουλινῶν χώρας ἡμέρας μακρᾶς ἐπὶ Νέστον ποταμόν.

Tani, ne kohet tona dy fise shume te famshme shqiptare, bartin te njejtin emer, por gjenden shume ne jug te tyre. Ata jane.........
----vazhdon----
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: A ka ndodhur ndonje shperngulje masive e fiseve?

#2

Post by Zeus10 »

Labet dhe Bylinasit Mallakastriote me Bylisin e lashte ose Ballshin e ri, qe jane ne fakt i njejti emer i evoluar:

Image

dhe
Byllis (Ancient Greek: Βύλλις or Βουλλίς) was an ancient city located in the region of Illyria. The remains of Byllis are situated north-east of Vlorë, 25 kilometers from the sea in Hekal, Mallakastër District, Albania.
Ne fakt jane me shume se kaq, emrat e fiseve te lashta, qe i gjejme te spostuara ne jug aty ku eshte Shqiperia sot.

Pyetja eshte: A mos valle keto fise te lashta qe njihen si ilire, jane detyruar nga dyndjet barbare te zbresin me ne jug, duke ndertuar qendra me te njejtin emer, apo keto te sotmet jane vendbanimet e tyre te hershme, qe historiografia gabimisht ose qellimisht, i ka cuar ne veri te gadishullit?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: A ka ndodhur ndonje shperngulje masive e fiseve?

#3

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Zeus10 wrote: Pyetja eshte: A mos valle keto fise te lashta qe njihen si ilire, jane detyruar nga dyndjet barbare te zbresin me ne jug, duke ndertuar qendra me te njejtin emer, apo keto te sotmet jane vendbanimet e tyre te hershme, qe historiografia gabimisht ose qellimisht, i ka cuar ne veri te gadishullit?
Koha kur keto fise kane shtegtuar drejt jugut eshte diskutabile. Une nuk mendoj se ka te beje me kohen e dyndjeve barbare, qe zune fill prej shek.IV te eres sone e tutje. Ekzistenca e fiseve ilire me emra te dyzuar mund t'i atribuohet nje periudhe me te hershme, me gjasme atehere ne zenith te kultures se avancuar te Glasinacit. Ne qofte se raportimet arkeologjike jane per t'u besuar, atehere fiset ilire qe ishin me ne veri avancuan me ne jug, ashtu sic behet e ditur nga toponimet.

1. Pelagonet (bregdeti i Dalmacise) - Pelagonet (Peoni-Maqedoni)
2. Derriopet (Dalmaci) - Derrionet (Peoni jugore)
3. Auturiatet (Mali i Zi i sotem lindor) - Autariatet (Epir)
4. Hyllejt (Dalmaci) - Hyllejt (Mallakaster, Korfuz dhe Peleponez)
5. Mani (Dalmaci) - Mani (Peleponez)
6. Amantet (Panoni) - Amantia (Epir)
7. Enkelejt (Budve, Mali i Zi) - Enkelejt (Oher), Engelanes (Beoti)
8. Graiket (Iliri jugore), Graiket (Eube)
9. Boionet (Gramos) - Beotet,
etj.

Keto levizje ka te ngjare te kene ndodhur, duke pase parasysh transformimet sociale si dhe nevojat ekonomike. Perderisa 'Bylllinet' e Mallakastres mund te perqasen me 'Hyllejte', lidhja e labeve me Iapodet me duket me e veshtire per t'u pranuar. Me i mundeshem me duket sugjerimi i bere nga disa se emri i tyre eshte refleks i Lapideve te mitologjise se vjeter greke.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: A ka ndodhur ndonje shperngulje masive e fiseve?

#4

Post by erix77 »

Megjithate nuk ka qene e nevojshme te zhvendosej i gjithe fisi qe emri i tyre te shfaqej diku tjeter njesoj apo pakez i ndryshuar.
Mjafton qe vetem nje dege e nje fisi per arsye nga me te ndryshmet te zhvendosej diku tjeter dhe te krijonte me kalimin e kohes nje fis te ri me te njejtin emer si origjinali.
Dhe e bëmë me besa besën ja të rrojmë ja të vdesëm!

Ishte thënë prej Zotit që të nderohen armët e Shqipërisë!
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