"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#871

Post by bardus » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:47 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Mosklasifikimi i shqipes si dhe gjuhes baske (pasi armenishtja fatkeqesisht eshte bastarduar keto 1000 vjet te fundit) eshte nje tregues i qarte qe teorite e klasifikimit te gjuheve ne "centum" dhe "satem" jane vetem teori pa baza te shendosha shkencore dhe llogjike.
Ne ato te Pokornyt qe solli Rreqebull njera thoshte qe gjuha shqipe qendron ne mes te satem dhe kentum, edhe une nuk i besoj aspak asaj teorie.Problemi eshte se me ato rregulla nuk e klasifikojne dot ,sillen rrotull te gjithe por asnjeri nuk i bie ne fije,per mua ballafaqimi fizik i fjaleve,isoj glossat jane me te rendesishme.

Ja ku e futi nje gjerman gjuhen shqipe,tek gjermaniket.
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Nderkohe, te tjere thone baltiket(gjuha) jane shqiptare te sllavizuar etj.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#872

Post by Zeus10 » Sat May 11, 2013 5:15 pm

Ne te njejtin liber te vitit 1668(te sjelle nga Bardus), autori
Timoteo da Termini, 1608-1680.
Breve, et vniversale cronistoria del mondo creato sino all' anno di salvte MDCLXVIII.

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Ka dy momente te rendesishme per te shprehur:

PASSANDO PER EPIRO(HOGGI ALBANIA) RICONOSCENDOLO LI SOPRADETTI PELASGI DALLI LORO PAESI DISCACCIATI...

Via through Epirus (today ALBANIA) recognizing the aforesaid PELASGIANS by their banished country...

1. Identifikimi i zakonshem i Epirit me Albanine
2. Vecimi i banoreve te ketij vendi me emrin PELLAZGE. Nese kjo eshte nje qasje romantiko-historike e autorit eshte veshtire ta thuash, por eshte nje tregues i qarte qe autori, nuk ka problem ti identifikoje albanezet me nje emer te nje populli te lashte.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#873

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun May 12, 2013 10:57 pm

In fact even the allegedly 'Hellenic' Macedonian kings were barbarians on their mothers' side. Eurydice, the mother of Philip II, was an Illyrian who learned to read and write Greek only in her old age. Philip himself married on each campaign a woman of whichever tribe he happened to be fighting at the time, hoping apparently to cement the peace with his manly charms. Andata of Illyria was followed by Nicesipolis of Pherae and Philinna of of Larissa (both Thessalians); then came Olympias, a Molossian of Epirus, and Meda, daughter of the king of Thrace. Alexander himself, the son of Olympias, was thus of mixed blood, a fact not forgotten in later ages.

Michael Avi-Yonah,Hellenism and the East: contacts and interrelations from Alexander to the Roman conquest, Published for the Institute of Languages, Literature, and the Arts, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, by University Microfilms International, 1978, p. 5
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#874

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun May 12, 2013 11:24 pm

On the other hand, the Dorians and the ancestors of other northern tribes - Aetolians, Eleans, Thessalians, perhaps Boeotians - lay outside the limits of the 'Mycenaean' empire, or at least on its more distant confines. They may have been to Homeric Greece what Macedonia and Illyria were to the Hellenism of later times, or what the descendants of Esau were to the children of Israel, — half acknowledged as kindred, yet despised as semi-barbarian.

...Phthiotis was of the same linguistic group, only diverging from the rest with time and distance. To this group, then, the Homeric language must have originally belonged, emerging from it as the great languages of the world have emerged from from local dialects, - as the Italian language, for example was formed from the popular

...the same time they suffered themselves to be conquered by the art and literature which they found in their new seats. They listened to the recitation of Homer, and they adopted the Homeric chiefs - notably the 'Pelopid' Agamemnon and his son Orestes - as their own national heroes. They even looked upon their leaders as heroes returning to a land of which they had long been wrongfully dispossessed. And the claim to Hellenic ancestry made by such princes as Philip of Macedon and Pyrrhus of Epirus is evidently the counterpart of the Spartan king's boast that he was not a Dorian but an Achaean

Homer's Odyssey, Books 13-24, Clarendon Press, 1901, p. 469
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#875

Post by bardus » Fri May 17, 2013 7:40 pm

Politikat e fqinjeve tane ndaj nesh, kane ardhur duke u ashpersuar, sa me shume kohe kalon, aq me te eger behen dhe ne sherbim te tyre eshte pershtatur edhe historia te cilen e shkruajne ndryshe ne kohe te ndryshme.Ketu eshte nje shembull i qarte, se si pershkruhej nga vete greket Epiri, ne me shume se nje shekull me pare dhe si e pershkruajne sot.

Bulletin de la Société historique et ethnologique de la Grèce, Volume 5 .1896 Athine.

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Perkthim : "Gjuha. ....ne fushen e Korces flitet dialekti me i vjeter i gjuhes shqipe ( iliro-pellasgjike),dege e indoeuropjanes..Straboni , " Epirotet flisnin dy gjuhe", ajo ngjan me dialektin Aeolo-Dorik,qe atehere Iliret(ne Epir,shen.im) ishin vendas dhe jo te ardhur dhe as ka te dhena historike ta kundershtojne,por gjithmone shkrimtaret e lashte,Bizantine dhe ne vazhdim e pohojne kete,ku dhe Homeri fillon Iliaden me fjalen e pare Aeolike "meni"..e ruajtur ne gjuhen shqipe, meni- mëri".

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#876

Post by ALBPelasgian » Fri May 17, 2013 11:50 pm

Nje nga dokumentet me te mira! Falemnderit Bardus per kete gjetje. Ky dokument ashtu si dhe plot te tjere qe kemi postuar vetem sa e bejne te dukshme hipokrizine e qarqeve akademike ne Greqi. Per aq kohe sa qarqe te caktuara simpatizonin idene e te ashtuquajtures Mbreteri heleno-shqiptare, ata toleronin te verteta si keto (qe theksojne rrenjet pellazgjike te shqiptareve). Por ne momentin kur u pa qe nje ide e tille qe si nje kulle prej letre, atehere po te njejtat qarqe shpiken paradigma te reja mbi origjinen e shqiptareve.

Sidoqofte une i bera edhe nje perkthim modest ne gjuhen angleze tekstit te mesiperm sepse vetem keshtu mund ta percojme para audiences se huaj.
Language. In Korca's plateau is spoken the oldest dialect of Albanian (Illyro-Pelasgian), a branch of Indo-European. Strabo stated that 'Epirotes spoke two languages', it resembles with Aeolo-Doric dialect, since that time Illyrians were native and not newcomers and there is no historical inkling to dispute that. (...) Ancient writers and Byzantine ones claim that likewise. Even Homer starts his 'Iliad' with the Aeolic word 'meni'...preserved into Albanian, 'meni-meri' (wrath)
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#877

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:41 pm

Nuk i kam qejf autoret e "lashte", por do te sjelle nje pasazh nga Pseudo-Scymni, te perkthyer dhe ne latinisht, ku ai i cileson thesprotet dhe kaonen pra epirotet e lashte me origjine barbare qe do te thote jo-greke(kjo jo sepse mendoj qe greket e lashte kane ndonje lidhje me keta sot):

[col]& δέ την παράλιον έντος έπέχειν Άδρίου
420 χαί τίνα μέν αυτών βασιλιχαϊς έξουσίαις
Οπη κο είναι τινα δέ και μοναρχίαις
δ δ αϋτονομεϊσθαι θεοσεβεΐς δ αυτοίις άγαν
και σφόδρα δικαίου φασι και φιλόξενους
χοινωνικήν διάθεσιν ήγαπηκότας
425 είναι βίον ζήλουν τε κοσμιώτατον
Φάρο δε τούτων ούχ άπωθεν κειμένη
νήσος Παρι ων κτίσις έστΐν ή τε λεγομενη
Μέλαινα Κόρκυρ ήν Κνίδιοι χατωχισαν
Έ ει δε λίμνην ε3 μάλ ή χώρα τινά
430 μεγάλην παρ αύτοϊς τήν Αυχνΐτιν λεγομένην
Προσεχές δέ νησός έστιν οΖ φασίν τίνες
ελθόντα Διομηόην ίιπολιπεΐν τον βίον
δθεν έστί Διομη δεια ταύτη τουνομα
Υπέρ δε τούτους είσι Βρϋγοι βάρβαροι
435 Προς τη βαλάττη δ ίστιν Έπίδαμνος πόλις
Έλληνις ήν Κόρχυρ άποικίσαι δοχεϊ
ϊπέρ δέ Βρύγους Έγχέλειοι λεγόμενοι
οίχοϋσιν ων Ιπηρξε και Κάδμος ποτέ
Οΐς πλησιόχωρός έστιν Άπολλυνία
440 Κερκυραίων τε και Κορινθίων χτίσις
ΕλληνΙς Ώριχός τε παράλιος πόλις
ε Ιλίου γαρ έπανάγοντες Εϋβοεϊς
χτίζουσι χατενεχθέντες υπδ των πνευμάτων
Επειτα θεσπρωτών τε και των Χαόνων
445 έθνη κατοιχεϊ βάρβαρ ου πολύν τόπον|alias marimam oram tenere ad Adriam
nonnullas horum potestati regiae
subjectas esse, quasdam etiam monarchiis
alias propriis uti legibus ; pios valde
-----------------------------------
-------------------------------
425 -----------------------------
-------------------------------
---------------------------
-------------------------------------
---------------------------------
430 ----------------------
-------------------------
---------------------------
--------------------------------
Super hos sunt Brygi barbari
435 ----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------
------------------------------------
440 ----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
------------------------------
Deinde Thesprotirum et Chaonum
gentes barbare habitant non multum locum[/col]

Source:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=tPU9AAA ... &q&f=false
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#878

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:52 pm

"EPIRUS SIVE ALBANIAE=EPIRI OSE SHQIPERIA" !
Keshtu eshte njohur perhere termi gjeografik "Epir/Epirus" duke u identifikuar me Shqiperine. Kete na sjellin jo vetem autoret e lashte Bizantin, Latin,por edhe ata mesjetar dhe me tej.
Asnjehere Epiri nuk u identifikua me Greqine ( e keshtuquqajtur) si nje term gjeografik, apo edhe ne aspektin etnik te tij!

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#879

Post by Zeus10 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:01 pm

Po te vihet re me vemendje, Epiri ne harte qe quhet ndryshe nga latinet ALBANIA, eshte vetem "Epiri I Lashte", kurse Macedonia(edhe kjo nje province latine), perfshin zonat mbi vargmalet qe perfundojne ne gjirin e Vlores ne perendim:

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#880

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:59 pm

Le te rishohim dhe te analizojme edhe njehere Strabonin (Lib. VII, 60)

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Duke pershkruar Dodonen si dhe vendndodhjen e saj, Straboni sjell diçka me teper interes kur permend tre gra plaka, prifteresha apo sherbetore ne tempullin e Dodones.
Citojme Strabonin :
"...Mbi te gjitha thuhet se plaka ne gjuhen e Moloseve dhe Thesproteve quhet me emrin Πελίας/Pelias..."

Pra siç shohim Straboni ben nje dallim te rendesishem midis dy gjuheve, gjuhes qe flisnin Moloset dhe Thesprotet dhe gjuhes qe flitej pertej gjirit te Ambrakise, kufiri me i skajshem i epiroteve, apo asaj gjuhe qe rendome njihet si "greqishte e lashte". Ne se Moloset dhe Thesprotet do flisnin te njejten gjuhe qe flitej ne pjesen tjeter e asaj qe quhej "Greqi e lashte", Straboni nuk do kishte arsye te theksonte "ne gjuhen e Moloseve dhe Thesproteve...", pikerisht sepse kemi te bejme me nje gjuhe te pakuptueshme per Strabonin dhe per "greket e lashte". Pra ky eshte nje fakt i rendesishem lidhur teorise se re te disa historianeve modern apo bashkekohore te cilet kerkojne te manipulojne fjalen "barbar" dhe duan ta lidhin me fjalen "i pa qyteteruar". Ka nje tentative ne kete aspekt kur disa historiane (me qellime me teper politike se sa shkencore) sot kerkojne qe gjuhen qe flisnin fiset epirote duan ta bejne si nje dialekt te "greqishtes se lashte".
Straboni perdor fjalen "glottan", sikurse perkthyesi ne latinisht ka perdorur fjalen "lingua", te cilat qe te dyja pikerisht te perkthyera ne shqip (si dhe gjithe gjuhet e sotme moderne) do te thote GJUHE dhe aspak dialekt.
I nje rendesie tjeter eshte edhe vet fjala Πελίας/Pelias, pra si quheshin keto gra te vjetra te cilat sipas Strabonit ishin tre dhe sherbenin ne tempullin e Dodones.
Ne mitologjine shqiptare, ne se do shohim dhe kryesisht ne jug te Shqiperise, hasim ne disa figura interesante te besimeve popullore, pikerisht PERRITE. Perrite shfaqen si gra shume te bukura dhe ne trajten e hyrive. Mendimi im eshte se kemi te bejme pikerisht ne te dyja rastet me te njejten figure dhe fjale.
Me kohe mund te kemi patur nje shnderrim apo rotacizem te shkronjave "L<--->R " dhe si rrjedhoje edhe ne keto dy fjale ku "Πελίας/Pelias--> ς (s)= prapashtesa---> Πελία/Pelia=Peria/Perria=PERRITE.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#881

Post by Zeus10 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:57 pm

Anonymous Panegyric of Emperors Manuel and John VIII Paleologos

Year 1428

....Only Arta and Ioannina are peopled by Greeks, while the Albanians occupy the rest of Epirus.

PS. Ju lutem gjeni origjinalin ne greqisht, sepse eshte zhdukur nga qarkullimi, vetem per te fshehur kete fjali, qe derrmon propaganden greke.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#882

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:08 pm

Nje konkretizim i te dhenave te Strabonit. Ai pervijon me sa duket nje tradite te sigurte homerike, e cila bredgetin grek e niste nga Maloea e Perrhebise per ta sosur gjer ne Ambraki.

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#883

Post by land » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:05 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Le te rishohim dhe te analizojme edhe njehere Strabonin (Lib. VII, 60)

Image

Duke pershkruar Dodonen si dhe vendndodhjen e saj, Straboni sjell diçka me teper interes kur permend tre gra plaka, prifteresha apo sherbetore ne tempullin e Dodones.
Citojme Strabonin :
"...Mbi te gjitha thuhet se plaka ne gjuhen e Moloseve dhe Thesproteve quhet me emrin Πελίας/Pelias..."

Pra siç shohim Straboni ben nje dallim te rendesishem midis dy gjuheve, gjuhes qe flisnin Moloset dhe Thesprotet dhe gjuhes qe flitej pertej gjirit te Ambrakise, kufiri me i skajshem i epiroteve, apo asaj gjuhe qe rendome njihet si "greqishte e lashte". Ne se Moloset dhe Thesprotet do flisnin te njejten gjuhe qe flitej ne pjesen tjeter e asaj qe quhej "Greqi e lashte", Straboni nuk do kishte arsye te theksonte "ne gjuhen e Moloseve dhe Thesproteve...", pikerisht sepse kemi te bejme me nje gjuhe te pakuptueshme per Strabonin dhe per "greket e lashte". Pra ky eshte nje fakt i rendesishem lidhur teorise se re te disa historianeve modern apo bashkekohore te cilet kerkojne te manipulojne fjalen "barbar" dhe duan ta lidhin me fjalen "i pa qyteteruar". Ka nje tentative ne kete aspekt kur disa historiane (me qellime me teper politike se sa shkencore) sot kerkojne qe gjuhen qe flisnin fiset epirote duan ta bejne si nje dialekt te "greqishtes se lashte".
Straboni perdor fjalen "glottan", sikurse perkthyesi ne latinisht ka perdorur fjalen "lingua", te cilat qe te dyja pikerisht te perkthyera ne shqip (si dhe gjithe gjuhet e sotme moderne) do te thote GJUHE dhe aspak dialekt.
I nje rendesie tjeter eshte edhe vet fjala Πελίας/Pelias, pra si quheshin keto gra te vjetra te cilat sipas Strabonit ishin tre dhe sherbenin ne tempullin e Dodones.
Ne mitologjine shqiptare, ne se do shohim dhe kryesisht ne jug te Shqiperise, hasim ne disa figura interesante te besimeve popullore, pikerisht PERRITE. Perrite shfaqen si gra shume te bukura dhe ne trajten e hyrive. Mendimi im eshte se kemi te bejme pikerisht ne te dyja rastet me te njejten figure dhe fjale.
Me kohe mund te kemi patur nje shnderrim apo rotacizem te shkronjave "L<--->R " dhe si rrjedhoje edhe ne keto dy fjale ku "Πελίας/Pelias--> ς (s)= prapashtesa---> Πελία/Pelia=Peria/Perria=PERRITE.
Titus Livius( libri VII, 3) thote qe banoret perreth tomorit hanin lende lisash dhe velanidhash(geshtenja) dhe arra. me vone mesuan nga prifterinjte e tempullit te leronin token dhe te mbjellin drithera. (kam cituar nje autor tjeter me pare qe thote qe bujqesia u shpik ne dodone).
pra behet fjale per periudhen mes mezolitit dhe neolitit, nga 10 mije deri ne 7 mije vjet para eres sone.

Plinius(lib VI,7, dhe lib VII,7,8) shkruan "Tomarus mons centum fondibus circa radices(Theopompo Celebratur), pra, mali tomor i dodones ka perreth 100 burime nder rezet(rrethinat) e tij.

Plutarku ne jeten e Pirros thote qe dodona gjendet ne mollosi.

gjeografi Meletios(faqe 274-275) thote se lopeshet(lopessi) ishin nga sellojt dhe vendi i tyre quhej lopessia.

Dionisi i Halikarnasit(lib i I, 14,19,51, dhe lib II,7, dhe lib V,22) thote se qyteti i dodones banohej prej kaoneve stergjysehve te LAPATHEVE( prej te cileve dalin labet e sotem) dhe me pas e mori kete qytet fisi i molloseve.

Plutarku thote perseri, se fiset qe banonin rreth dodones ishin sellojte, lapathet, enianet, perrevejt, dhe athamanet....perrevejt dhe athamanet u debuan nga lapathet( labet shenimi im).

vertet hanin lende lisi dhe velanidhe? jo, kastana---> Dias velani, pra geshtenja eshte velanidh i Zeusit.
----

Sulove a Selove, krahina ne veri prane tomorit.....Sellojte.

Lubesha ose Lobesha(Lobeshare banoret), katund reze tomorit nga faqja perendimore e tij....Lopessi i quan banoret gjeografi Meletios.

Qafa e Dhodhonit, vend ne katundin Bargullas, faqja jugore e tomorit....no comment, kuptohet.

Pllaka e Dhodhonit, vend ne katundin Bargullas, ka burime me uje shume te ftohte.....Plini flet per 100 burime rreth tomorit.

Stradomi ose sterdomi, vend ne majen veriore te tomorit....eshte shume e ngjashme me fjalet latine saturnu-domi, pra banesa e saturnit-kronit qe hante femijet e tij, eshte afer me cuken e peljes.

Cuka e peljes quhet maja veriore e tomorit....peljet( ne gjuhen e lashte barbare kaonase) ishin tre pellumbeshat-plakat-priftereshat e Dodones....Peleades.

Katundi Mrakull i perngjan emrit orakull.

Tomor mund te afrohet me fjalen tmerr, pra mali i tmerrit(spekullim).

πελιοί


Hesychius also cites the use of Pelioi, old men by Epirotes.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#884

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:44 pm

land wrote: Qafa e Dhodhonit, vend ne katundin Bargullas, faqja jugore e tomorit....no comment, kuptohet.
Te kujt jane keto te dhena? Disa m'u duken mjaft interesante, si kjo qe citova me siper. Ky pra duhet te kete lidhje me Βραγυλοσ (oronim i vjeter maqedon) dhe Bargulum (tek Parthinet):
Bargulum, a fortress of the Parthini, Illyria.
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#885

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:37 pm

ALBPelasgian wrote:
land wrote: Qafa e Dhodhonit, vend ne katundin Bargullas, faqja jugore e tomorit....no comment, kuptohet.
Te kujt jane keto te dhena? Disa m'u duken mjaft interesante, si kjo qe citova me siper. Ky pra duhet te kete lidhje me Βραγυλοσ (oronim i vjeter maqedon) dhe Bargulum (tek Parthinet):
Bargulum, a fortress of the Parthini, Illyria.
Besoj duhet te jene prej vepres se P. Ikonomit:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101771853/His ... li-Ikonomi
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