Nje ndihme te vogel ju lutem...

[Mallakastrioti]

....nga greqishtja e vjeter(besoj) e Apollodorit te Athines.Fakti interesant qe permend malet Keraune dhe Illirine...desha te dija ne ben ndonje lidhje midis tyre apo ndarje, ne kete tekst...flm.

[Mallakastrioti]

Ose me sakt pyetja:A permenden malet Keraune dhe Iliria ne kete tekst?

[alfeko sukaraku]

Flet per zonen nga malet Keraune deri ne gjirin e Amvrakias.Shpjegon qytetet edhe kush i kane banuar edhe ndertuar.Duke udhetuar (me det)nga Kolhon per ne malet Keraune erdhen ata qe ndertuan ishullin Apsirtidhas? te Ilirides.

Kryesisht tregon per historin e zones duke e lidhur me Midet edhe Argonautet

Apollodori na ka lene edhe nje te dhene tjeter shume te rendesishme per ilirin.Ai na thote se :

SI VDIQ ELEFENORI NE TROJE,ATA QE ISHIN ME TE ERDHEN EDHE U STREHUAN NE APOLONIN E JONIT""

Pra per Apollodorin ,Apolonia jone banohej qe nga shek 12 p e s,por hajde mbushi mendjen Neritan Cekes edhe grekoitalianve qe germojn Apollonin duke kerkuar kulture grekolatine edhe duke e vendosur krijimin e qyteteve ne iliri ne kohen qe lulezoj qytetrimi greko-latin.

[Zeus10]

Teksti eshte ky i meposhtmi i marre prej :
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica

Libri IV 507-574

Κόλχοι δ' ὁππότ' ὄλεθρον ἐπεφράσθησαν ἄνακτος,
ἤτοι μὲν δίζεσθαι ἐπέχραον ἔνδοθι πάσης
Ἀργὼ καὶ Μινύας Κρονίης ἁλός. ἀλλ' ἀπέρυκεν
Ἥρη σμερδαλέῃσι κατ' αἰθέρος ἀστεροπῇσιν.
ὕστατον αὐτοὶ δ' αὖτε Κυταιίδος ἤθεα γαίης
στύξαν, ἀτυζόμενοι χόλον ἄγριον Αἰήταο,
ἔμπεδα δ' ἄλλυδις ἄλλοι ἐφορμηθέντες ἔνασθεν.
οἱ μὲν ἐπ' αὐτάων νήσων ἔβαν, ᾗσιν ἐπέσχον
ἥρωες, ναίουσι δ' ἐπώνυμοι Ἀψύρτοιο:
οἱ δ' ἄρ' ἐπ' Ἰλλυρικοῖο μελαμβαθέος ποταμοῖο,
τύμβος ἵν' Ἁρμονίης Κάδμοιό τε, πύργον ἔδειμαν,
ἀνδράσιν Ἐγχελέεσσιν ἐφέστιοι: οἱ δ' ἐν ὄρεσσιν
ἐνναίουσιν, ἅπερ τε Κεραύνια κικλήσκονται,
ἐκ τόθεν, ἐξότε τούσγε Διὸς Κρονίδαο κεραυνοὶ
νῆσον ἐς ἀντιπέραιαν ἀπέτραπον ὁρμηθῆναι.
Ἥρωες δ', ὅτε δή σφιν ἐείσατο νόστος ἀπήμων,
δή ῥα τότε προμολόντες ἐπὶ χθονὶ πείσματ' ἔδησαν
Ὑλλήων. νῆσοι γὰρ ἐπιπρούχοντο θαμειαὶ
ἀργαλέην πλώουσιν ὁδὸν μεσσηγὺς ἔχουσαι
οὐδέ σφιν, ὡς καὶ πρίν, ἀνάρσια μητιάασκον
Ὑλλῆες: πρὸς δ' αὐτοὶ ἐμηχανόωντο κέλευθον,
μισθὸν ἀειρόμενοι τρίποδα μέγαν Ἀπόλλωνος.
δοιοὺς γὰρ τρίποδας τηλοῦ πόρε Φοῖβος ἄγεσθαι
Αἰσονίδῃ περόωντι κατὰ χρέος, ὁππότε Πυθὼ
ἱρὴν πευσόμενος μετεκίαθε τῆσδ' ὑπὲρ αὐτῆς
ναυτιλίης: πέπρωτο δ', ὅπῃ χθονὸς ἱδρυνθεῖεν,
μήποτε τὴν δῄοισιν ἀναστήσεσθαι ἰοῦσιν.
τούνεκεν εἰσέτι νῦν κείνῃ ὅδε κεύθεται αἴῃ
ἀμφὶ πόλιν ἀγανὴν Ὑλληίδα, πολλὸν ἔνερθεν
οὔδεος, ὥς κεν ἄφαντος ἀεὶ μερόπεσσι πέλοιτο.
οὐ μὲν ἔτι ζώοντα καταυτόθι τέτμον ἄνακτα
Ὕλλον, ὃν εὐειδὴς Μελίτη τέκεν Ἡρακλῆι
δήμῳ Φαιήκων. ὁ γὰρ οἰκία Ναυσιθόοιο
Μάκριν τ' εἰσαφίκανε, Διωνύσοιο τιθήνην,
νιψόμενος παίδων ὀλοὸν φόνον: ἔνθ' ὅγε κούρην
Αἰγαίου ἐδάμασσεν ἐρασσάμενος ποταμοῖο,
νηιάδα Μελίτην: ἡ δὲ σθεναρὸν τέκεν Ὕλλον.
οὐδ' ἄρ' ὅγ' ἡβήσας αὐτῇ ἐνὶ ἔλδετο νήσῳ
ναίειν, κοιρανέοντος ὑπ' ὀφρύσι Ναυσιθόοιο:
βῆ δ' ἅλαδε Κρονίην, αὐτόχθονα λαὸν ἀγείρας
Φαιήκων: σὺν γάρ οἱ ἄναξ πόρσυνε κέλευθον
Μέντορες, ἀγραύλοισιν ἀλεξόμενον περὶ βουσίν.
Ἀλλά, θεαί, πῶς τῆσδε παρὲξ ἁλός, ἀμφί τε γαῖαν
Αὐσονίην νήσους τε Λιγυστίδας, αἳ καλέονται
Στοιχάδες, Ἀργῴης περιώσια σήματα νηὸς
νημερτὲς πέφαται; τίς ἀπόπροθι τόσσον ἀνάγκη
καὶ χρειώ σφ' ἐκόμισσε; τίνες σφέας ἤγαγον αὖραι;
Αὐτόν που μεγαλωστὶ δεδουπότος Ἀψύρτοιο
Ζῆνα, θεῶν βασιλῆα, χόλος λάβεν, οἷον ἔρεξαν.
Αἰαίης δ' ὀλοὸν τεκμήρατο δήνεσι Κίρκης
αἷμ' ἀπονιψαμένους, πρό τε μυρία πημανθέντας,
νοστήσειν. τὸ μὲν οὔτις ἀριστήων ἐνόησεν:
ἀλλ' ἔθεον γαίης Ὑλληίδος ἐξανιόντες
τηλόθι: τὰς δ' ἀπέλειπον, ὅσαι Κόλχοισι πάροιθεν
ἑξείης πλήθοντο Λιβυρνίδες εἰν ἁλὶ νῆσοι,
Ἴσσα τε Δυσκέλαδός τε καὶ ἱμερτὴ Πιτύεια.
αὐτὰρ ἔπειτ' ἐπὶ τῇσι παραὶ Κέρκυραν ἵκοντο,
ἔνθα Ποσειδάων Ἀσωπίδα νάσσατο κούρην,
ἠύκομον Κέρκυραν, ἑκὰς Φλιουντίδος αἴης,
ἁρπάξας ὑπ' ἔρωτι: μελαινομένην δέ μιν ἄνδρες
ναυτίλοι ἐκ πόντοιο κελαινῇ πάντοθεν ὕλῃ
δερκόμενοι Κέρκυραν ἐπικλείουσι Μέλαιναν.
τῇ δ' ἐπὶ καὶ Μελίτην, λιαρῷ περιγηθέες οὔρῳ,
αἰπεινήν τε Κερωσσόν, ὕπερθε δὲ πολλὸν ἐοῦσαν
Νυμφαίην παράμειβον, ἵνα κρείουσα Καλυψὼ

kam nje perkthim ne anglisht

[Zeus10]

Ose me sakt pyetja:A permenden malet Keraune dhe Iliria ne kete tekst?

Po permenden, ato quhen malet e Zeus rrufeleshuesit dhe gjithashtu jepet konformimi per Hylleasit Ilire (Mallakastriote ) dhe per atin e tyre Hyllusin.

[Mallakastrioti]

Faleminderit alfeko...faleminderit Zeus...
Po sjell edhe librin qe gjeta ne google books(mund te shkarkohet), ne greqisht dhe shpjegimet ne latinisht:
http://www.google.it/books?id=kmUGAAAAQ ... q=&f=false

[alfeko sukaraku]

Ose me sakt pyetja:A permenden malet Keraune dhe Iliria ne kete tekst?

Po permenden, ato quhen malet e Zeus rrufeleshuesit dhe gjithashtu jepet konformimi per Hylleasit Ilire (Mallakastriote ) dhe per atin e tyre Hyllusin.

Zeus

Ku vendosen varret e Kadmit edhe Harmonis?Sipas Strabonit njohe se ne iliri tregohen shume gojdhena me Kadmin.

[Mallakastrioti]

Ore mu be njecik koka lemsh mua me kete Apollodorin...
Tani ky permend Apsyrtides.
"Apsyrtides, l'antico nome di queste isole è legato alla leggenda dell'eroe mitologico Apsyrto, ucciso dalla sorella Medea.
Il re della Colchide possedeva il prezioso vello d'oro L'ardito e astuto Giasone, aiutato da Medea, di lui innamorata e figlia del re, riuscì ad impossessarsene ed a fuggire con la nave Argo e i compagni Argonauti.
Il figlio del re, Apsyrte, partì con la sua nave all'inseguimento di Giasone e dopo un lungo viaggio raggiunse la nave Argo.
Ma venne aggirato dalla sorella Medea che lo convinse a negoziare con Giasone, che infine lo uccise a tradimento.
Medea tagliò quindi in pezzi il corpo del fratello gettandoli in mare.
Da queste membra dilaniate nacquero le isole di Apsyrte: le Apsyrtides."
Perkthim:"
Apsyrtides, emri i lashtë i këtyre ishujve është e lidhur legjenda e Apsyrto mitologjike, të vrarë nga Medea motra e tij.
Mbreti i Colchis kishin çmuar Artë Fleece guximshme dhe dinak Jason, ndihmuar nga Medea, në dashuri me atë dhe vajzën e mbretit, arriti të zinte vend dhe u arratis me anije Argo dhe shokët Argonauts.
Bir i mbretit, Apsyrte, u largua me anijen e tij në ndjekje të Jasoni dhe pas një udhëtimi të gjatë arritën Argo.
Por u anashkaluar nga Medea motra e tij që bindur atë për të rënë dakord me Jason, i cili në fund e vrau me tradhti.
Medea pastaj prerë në copa trupin e vëllait të tij me hedhjen e tyre jashtë bordit.
Gjymtyrët e grisur nga këto ishuj ishin lindur Apsyrte: Apsyrtides.
...mos ja vini re perkthimit shqip se e bera me google translator...nuk kisha kohe...lol
-------------
Tani Apsyrtides jane ne Kroaci ore....si vete qy hall?


Tjeter gje qe permend....

Faiakes=Φαίακες

"...Faiakes (Φαίακες) is a municipality in the Corfu Prefecture, Greece. It is located in the northeastern part of the island of Corfu. "....pra emri Korfuzit te lashte?????

---tjeter:
Alkinoos=Alcinous

King of the Phaiakians (Phaeacians) and father of Nausikaa (Nausicaa) and Laodamas.

Alkinoos and his wife, Arete, welcomed Odysseus when Nausikaa brought him to their house as a stranger; Odysseus was slow to reveal his true identity but when Alkinoos and Arete found out who he really was they gave him many gifts and a ship to carry him home to Ithaka (Ithaca).

Alkinoos and Arete also gave sanctuary to the Argonauts when they were being chased by the soldiers of king Aietes (Aeetes) under the condition that Iason (Jason) marry Medea.

The name Alkinoos may also be rendered as Alkinous.

* Odyssey, book 6, line 12
* Argonautika, book 4, lines 1098-1109

....
Alkinoos=Alcinous....ky i fundit(Alcinous) ka nje tingull disi familjar per nje qytet te lashte Ilir per mua ore....mbase gaboj....po sikur ngjan me tingullin e emrit Ulqin...
"Ulqin is considered among the oldest towns in Adriatic coast. It is believed that the city of Ulqin is 3000 years old. In ancient time, Ulqin was known as Colchinium."...sikur me kapi syri edhe diçka me emrin "Kolkon" ne kete shkrim te Apollodorit...
....
O me ka zene gripi mua o sho Ilire dhe pellazge une gjithandej ore me keto emertime....po pashi zotin te mundohemi ti shtjellojme se ka nja tri dite qe po me zien koka siç gjeta keto toponime dhe emra fisesh te lashte

[Mallakastrioti]

Phaiakia....=(Korfuzi i sotem)

The earliest name that has reached us is Drepani (sickle), which comes from the peculiar shape of the island. The ancient Greeks associated it with the weapon, used by Kronos to kill his father, Uranius. The name Makris, meaning Long island, also refers to its shape. In Homerş Odyssey the island was denominated Scheria and was allegedly inhabited by the Phaeaceans, from which a later name emerged: Phaeakia.
-----------

[Mallakastrioti]

...ja citim ne anglisht perseri nga ky liber...Argonautika(Alfeko Kadmin ketu thote qe eshte varrosur ne token e Enkelejve)...

[XH.GASHI]

Zeus

Ku vendosen varret e Kadmit edhe Harmonis?Sipas Strabonit njohe se ne iliri tregohen shume gojdhena me Kadmin.

Desha te nderlidhem tek personnazhi i Kadmit.
Ne nje liber te nje shkrimtari gjerman kam lexuar se Kadmi ishte mbret i TROJES si dhe per Kadmin i cili ne Samothrake njifej me emrin GHERMI apo GHERMES.
Ne te verrtet nga ketu lind pyetja nese Kadmi ishte mbret i TROJES mos eshte Kadmi vete Dardani themeluesi i trojes teukërve .Mos di kush ndoshta me shume ne kete drejtim sepse nese zbulohet e verrteta e Kadmit besoj se do ta keni qelesin , kodin zberthyes te te gjitha gjuheve dhe llojeve te shkrimeve pasuese .

[Zeus10]

Ore mu be njecik koka lemsh mua me kete Apollodorin...
Tani ky permend Apsyrtides.
Perkthim:"
Apsyrtides, emri i lashtë i këtyre ishujve është e lidhur legjenda e Apsyrto mitologjike, të vrarë nga Medea motra e tij.
Mbreti i Colchis kishin çmuar Artë Fleece guximshme dhe dinak Jason, ndihmuar nga Medea, në dashuri me atë dhe vajzën e mbretit, arriti të zinte vend dhe u arratis me anije Argo dhe shokët Argonauts.
Bir i mbretit, Apsyrte, u largua me anijen e tij në ndjekje të Jasoni dhe pas një udhëtimi të gjatë arritën Argo.
Por u anashkaluar nga Medea motra e tij që bindur atë për të rënë dakord me Jason, i cili në fund e vrau me tradhti.
Medea pastaj prerë në copa trupin e vëllait të tij me hedhjen e tyre jashtë bordit.
Gjymtyrët e grisur nga këto ishuj ishin lindur Apsyrte: Apsyrtides.
...mos ja vini re perkthimit shqip se e bera me google translator...nuk kisha kohe...lol
-------------
Tani Apsyrtides jane ne Kroaci ore....si vete qy hall?


Tjeter gje qe permend....

Faiakes=Φαίακες

"...Faiakes (Φαίακες) is a municipality in the Corfu Prefecture, Greece. It is located in the northeastern part of the island of Corfu. "....pra emri Korfuzit te lashte?????

---tjeter:
Alkinoos=Alcinous

King of the Phaiakians (Phaeacians) and father of Nausikaa (Nausicaa) and Laodamas.

Alkinoos and his wife, Arete, welcomed Odysseus when Nausikaa brought him to their house as a stranger; Odysseus was slow to reveal his true identity but when Alkinoos and Arete found out who he really was they gave him many gifts and a ship to carry him home to Ithaka (Ithaca).

Alkinoos and Arete also gave sanctuary to the Argonauts when they were being chased by the soldiers of king Aietes (Aeetes) under the condition that Iason (Jason) marry Medea.

The name Alkinoos may also be rendered as Alkinous.

* Odyssey, book 6, line 12
* Argonautika, book 4, lines 1098-1109

....
Alkinoos=Alcinous....ky i fundit(Alcinous) ka nje tingull disi familjar per nje qytet te lashte Ilir per mua ore....mbase gaboj....po sikur ngjan me tingullin e emrit Ulqin...
"Ulqin is considered among the oldest towns in Adriatic coast. It is believed that the city of Ulqin is 3000 years old. In ancient time, Ulqin was known as Colchinium."...sikur me kapi syri edhe diçka me emrin "Kolkon" ne kete shkrim te Apollodorit...
....
O me ka zene gripi mua o sho Ilire dhe pellazge une gjithandej ore me keto emertime....po pashi zotin te mundohemi ti shtjellojme se ka nja tri dite qe po me zien koka siç gjeta keto toponime dhe emra fisesh te lashte

Tani ka dy momente, shkrimtaret e lashte jane shume te pasakte, ose dikush i ka ngaterruar "padashje" me vone emrat e vendeve njerezve dhe historite.
Persa i perket historise te argonauteve, Jasoni i ndjekur prej njerezve te mbretit te Kolkias(asaj aziatike!!!?)



gjeti nje shteg dhe doli ne Adriatik(ne e dime shume mire qe kjo eshte e pamundur). Nese do ta konsiderojme historine e e argonauteve pa ngaterresa emrash dhe vendesh, ngjarjet jane zhvilluar vertet ne Adriatik, dhe vete historite e argonauteve jane parahelenike, ato ju perkasin te gjitha pellazgeve, bile dhe trashegimia mitike eshte pellazge dhe jo greke.