DEKONSTRUKTIMI ME ÇEKAN I PROPAGANDËS GREKE PËR EPIRIN!

[ALBPelasgian]

Të vetëquajturit 'Grekë' nga Junanistani kanë dalë më egër se asnjëherë më parë duke shfrytëzuar çdo kanal të mundshëm virtual për të shprëndarë propagandën e tyre sistematike mbi Epirin. Tërë politika e Junanistanit që prej 1913 e këtej është e prirë që ta përligjë pushtimin e bërë me luftë duke nxjerrë në pah kartat 'historike' (thënë më saktë HISTERIKE) mbi gjoja 'helencitetin' e dikurshëm të Epirit.

Ata po bëjnë koleksione citatesh të autorëve të lashtë që u paskan shprehur në të mirë të helenictetit të Epirit. Në të shumtën e rasteve, citatet e tyre janë të përgjysmuara, të veçuara, të vagullta kuptimisht e ç'është më e keqja: janë seleksionuar me finokëri duke u shkëputur nga konteksti dhe duke iu dhënë një kuptim i ri.

Më poshtë do të paraqesim versionet e tyre të cunguara dhe dekonstruktimi i tyre!

[Zeus10]

Në të shumtën e rasteve, citatet e tyre janë të përgjysmuara, të veçuara, të vagullta kuptimisht e ç'është më e keqja: janë seleksionuar me finokëri duke u shkëputur nga konteksti dhe duke iu dhënë një kuptim i ri.

Më poshtë do të paraqesim versionet e tyre të cunguara dhe dekonstruktimi i tyre!

Citatet e zgjedhura prej tyre jane siperfaqesore, te vagullta me nje baze tjeter destinacioni nga kendveshtrimi grek, por ato duhen luftuar pikerisht per keto persa kohe perbejne majen e shpates se propagandes se tyre.
Une do ndihmoj fuqishem ne kete drejtim, sepse duke ju hequr grekeve lashtesine, ju heqim alibine qe ata kane per kulturen dhe historine e tyre vetem 200 vjecare.

[ALBPelasgian]

USE AND ABUSE OF ANCIENT ACCOUNTS BY YUNNANISTAN PROPAGANDA:
EXAMPLE NR.1

Alexander, the Epirote, when waging war against the Illyrians, first placed a force in ambush, and then dressed up some of his own men in Illyrian garb, ordering them to lay waste his own, that is to say, Epirote territory. When the Illyrians saw that this was being done, they themselves began to pillage right and left — the more confidently since they thought that those who led the way were scouts. But when they had been designedly brought by the latter into a disadvantageous position, they were routed and killed.

Frontinus, Stratagems, Book II, V. On ambushes

Ky citat është vetëm një fishekzjarr që shuhet pas disa sekondash. Fatkeqësisht, të indoktrinuarit e Junanit këtë e përdorin si 'argument' për të mohuar lidhjet etnike iliro-epirote. Mirëpo, ndryshueshmëria e kostumit nuk do të thotë kurrsesi ndryshueshmëri etniciteti, sepse kostumet si në lashtësi si në kohërat moderne paraqesin një larmi të pafundme. Tek Plutarku gjejmë një pasazh shumë interesant:

Several of these Pyrrhus himself sent privately, pretending to be Macedonians, and saying, now was the time to be delivered from the severe government of Demetrius by coming over to Pyrrhus, a gracious prince and a lover of soldiers. By this artifice a great part of the army was in a state of excitement, and the soldiers began to look every way about inquiring for Pyrrhus. It happened he was without his helmet, till understanding they did not know him, he put it on again, and so was quickly recognized by his lofty crest and the goat's horns he wore upon it. Then the Macedonians, running to him, desired to be told his password, and some put oaken boughs upon their heads, because they saw them worn by the soldiers about him. Some persons even took the confidence to say to Demetrius himself, that he would be well advised to withdraw and lay down the government. And he, indeed, seeing the mutinous movements of the army to be only too consistent with what they said, privately got away, disguised in a broad hat and a common soldier's coat. So Pyrrhus became master of the army without fighting, and was declared King of the Macedonians.

Plutarch, Pyrrhus, 11

Duket që epirotët kanë ndjekur gjithherë njëfarë strategjie të stërholluar që sot do të mund të quhej 'spiunazh' ose 'lojë e dyfishtë' e të implikuarit në rradhët e kundërshtarit me qëllim dëmtimin dhe shkërmoqjen e tij nga brenda. Prandaj, ky citat përveçse nuk thotë asgjë për etnicitetin e Epirotëve, ai po u përdor në këtë mënyrë të cunguar rrezikon të bëjë çoroditjen e pandreçshme të historisë. Do të ishte shumë me e vlefshme sikur miqtë tanë nga Junanistani të mundoheshin ta kuptonin Plutarkun në tërësi dhe jo duke veçuar copëza nga ai. Pika kyqe e paragrafit në fjalë është mono etniciteti maqedono-epirot, sepse në fakt tërë mosmarrëveshjet e tyre dhe luftërat nuk shkaktoheshin nga antipati etnike (në fakt nuk kish shanc për këtë sepse ata të njejtë etnikisht ishin) por qëllimet ekspansioniste të rivalëve e monarkëve të të dyja mbretërive. Për t'i dhënë lexuesit një pasqyrë më të qartë mbi unitetin etnografik (në kuptimin e veshjeve) po japim në tërësi një paragraf të rëndësishëm nga gjeografi i shquar i antikitetit, Strabo i cili thotë:

Ἠπειρῶται δ' εἰσὶ καὶ Ἀμφίλοχοι καὶ οἱ ὑπερκείμενοι καὶ συνάπτοντες τοῖς Ἰλλυρικοῖς ὄρεσι, τραχεῖαν οἰκοῦντες χώραν, Μολοττοί τε καὶ Ἀθαμᾶνες καὶ Αἴθικες καὶ Τυμφαῖοι καὶ Ὀρέσται Παρωραῖοί τε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνες, οἱ μὲν πλησιάζοντες τοῖς Μακεδόσι μᾶλλον οἱ δὲ τῷ Ἰονίῳ κόλπῳ. λέγεται δὲ τὴν Ὀρεστιάδα κατασχεῖν ποτε Ὀρέστης φεύγων τὸν τῆς μητρὸς φόνον καὶ καταλιπεῖν ἐπώνυμον ἑαυτοῦ τὴν χώραν, κτίσαι δὲ καὶ πόλιν, καλεῖσθαι δ' αὐτὴν Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν. ἀναμέμικται δὲ τούτοις τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ ἔθνη τὰ πρὸς τῷ νοτίῳ μέρει τῆς ὀρεινῆς καὶ τὰ ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου· τῆς γὰρ Ἐπιδάμνου καὶ τῆς Ἀπολλωνίας μέχρι τῶν Κεραυνίων ὑπεροικοῦσι Βυλλίονές τε καὶ Ταυλάντιοι καὶ Παρθῖνοι καὶ Βρῦγοι· πλησίον δέ που καὶ τὰ ἀργυρεῖα τὰ ἐν Δαμαστίῳ, περὶ ἃ Δυέσται συνεστήσαντο τὴν δυναστείαν καὶ Ἐγχέλειοι, οὓς καὶ Σεσαρηθίους καλοῦσι· πρὸς δὲ τούτοις Λυγκῆσταί τε καὶ ἡ Δευρίοπος καὶ ἡ τρίπολις Πελαγονία καὶ Ἐορδοὶ καὶ Ἐλίμεια καὶ Ἐράτυρα. ταῦτα δὲ πρότερον μὲν κατεδυναστεύετο ἕκαστα, ὧν ἐν τοῖς Ἐγχελείοις οἱ Κάδμου καὶ Ἁρμονίας ἀπόγονοι ἦρχον, καὶ τὰ μυθευόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ δείκνυται. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν οὐχ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· οἱ δὲ Λυγκῆσται ὑπ' Ἀρραβαίῳ ἐγένοντο τοῦ Βακχιαδῶν γένους ὄντι· τούτου δ' ἦν θυγατριδῆ ἡ Φιλίππου μήτηρ τοῦ Ἀμύντου Εὐρυδίκη, Σίρρα δὲ θυγάτηρ· καὶ τῶν Ἠπειρωτῶν δὲ Μολοττοὶ ὑπὸ Πύρρῳ τῷ Νεοπτολέμου τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως καὶ τοῖς ἀπογόνοις αὐτοῦ Θετταλοῖς οὖσι γεγονότες· οἱ λοιποὶ δὲ ὑπὸ ἰθαγενῶν ἤρχοντο· εἶτ' ἐπικρατούντων ἀεί τινων κατέστρεψεν ἅπαντα εἰς τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχήν, πλὴν ὀλίγων τῶν ὑπὲρ τοῦ Ἰονίου κόλπου. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ περὶ Λύγκον καὶ Πελαγονίαν καὶ Ὀρεστιάδα καὶ Ἐλίμειαν τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίαν ἐκάλουν, οἱ δ' ὕστερον καὶ ἐλευθέραν· ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ σύμπασαν τὴν μέχρι Κορκύρας Μακεδονίαν προσαγορεύουσιν, αἰτιολογοῦντες ἅμα ὅτι καὶ κουρᾷ καὶ διαλέκτῳ καὶ χλαμύδι καὶ ἄλλοις τοιούτοις χρῶνται παραπλησίως·

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country — I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias — when in exile on account of the murder of his mother — and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi.
(…) Then, because one tribe or another was always getting the mastery over others, they all ended in the Macedonian empire, except a few who dwelt above the Ionian Gulf. And in fact the regions about Lyncus, Pelagonia, Orestias, and elimeia, used to be called Upper Macedonia, though later on they were by some also called Free Macedonia. But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar, although, they add, some speak both languages.”
(~Strabo, Geography, Book VII, Chapter 7)

Komentet janë të tepërta këtu. Mirëpo, ajo çka është e vlefshme për t'u nënvizuar është se Epiri edhe në kohërat moderne (para se të kolonizohej dhe pushtohej ushtarakisht nga Greqia me 1913) ka bërë pjesë në arealin etnografik të popullit shqiptar. Një nga veshjet karakteristike të kësaj zone është edhe Fustanella, një lloj veshjeje e cila zanafillon që prej lashtësisë, elementi pellazgo-ilir i të të cilës është i padiskutueshëm për etnologjinë moderne botërore. Fustanella si e tillë ka pasur një përdorim të gjërë në mbarë trevat shqiptare (Kosovë, Mali i Zi, Maqedonia Perëndimore, etj).

[ALBPelasgian]

USE AND ABUSE OF ANCIENT ACCOUNTS BY YUNNANISTAN PROPAGANDA:
EXAMPLE NR. 2

Pyrrhus was the first Greek we know of to wage war against the Romans. For no further battle, it is said, took place between Aeneas and Diomedes with his Argives. One of the many ambitions of the Athenians was to reduce all Italy, but the disaster at Syracuse prevented their trying conclusions with the Romans. Alexander, son of Neoptolemus, of the same family as Pyrrhus but older, died among the Leucani before he could meet the Romans in battle.

Pausanias, Description of Greece Book 1 Attica 1,11,7

Përpara se të zbërthejmë poentën e vërtetë të Pasuanisë, le të bëjmë fillimisht një digresion fare të shkurtër në një paragraf tjetër:

[1.4.1] These Gauls inhabit the most remote portion of Europe, near a great sea that is not navigable to its extremities, and possesses ebb and flow and creatures quite unlike those of other seas. Through their country flows the river Eridanus, on the bank of which the daughters of Helius (Sun) are supposed to lament the fate that befell their brother Phaethon. It was late before the name "Gauls" came into vogue; for anciently they were called Celts both amongst themselves and by others. An army of them mustered and turned towards the Ionian Sea, dispossessed the Illyrian people, all who dwelt as far as Macedonia with the Macedonians themselves, and overran Thessaly.

Pausanias, Description of Greece Book 1 Attica 1,4,1

Pasuani, në këtë fragment ku përshkruan mësymjet shkatërrimtare të keltëve gjatë tokave që shtriheshin paralel me Detin Jon bën fjalë për POPULL ILIR dhe askund për 'epirotas' në veçanti. Për 'Grekë' as që bëhet fjalë...
Popullsinë që shtrihej prej Detit Jon (ku nëse i kemi parasysh përshkrimet gjeografike të ndryshme shtrihej Epiri) gjër në Maqedoni, Pausani i konsideron të populluara nga Ilirët.

Duke lexuar me kujdesin më të madh Pasuaninë gjejmë edhe një 'imtësirë' të rëndësishme, e cila nuk është e lexuar asnjëherë në Junanistan:

The first Greeks that Pyrrhus attacked on becoming king were the Corcyraeans. He saw that the island lay off his own territory, and he did not wish others to have a base from which to attack him.

Pausanias, Description of Greece Book 1 Attica 1.11.6

Nëse Pirro në veçanti dhe epirotët në tërësi paskan qenë 'grekë të pastër' atëherë si u shpjeguaka fakti që Pausani apostrofon Korkyrasit si 'grekët e parë' që u sulmuan nga Pirroja? Nëse epirotët do të kishin të njejtin etnicitet me atë të kolonisë helene të Korkyrës sigurisht se Pausania nuk do ta nënvizonte fare faktin se kërkyrasit ishin grekët e parë që u pushtuan.

So Pyrrhus was the first to cross the Ionian Sea from Greece to attack the Romans. And even he crossed on the invitation of the Tarentines. For they were already involved in a war with the Romans, but were no match for them unaided.

Pausanias, Description of Greece Book 1 Attica 1.12.1

Se shkrimtarët antike në disa vende kanë rënë në kundërthënie me atë çfarë kanë shkruar nuk është ndonjë gjë e re. Sikur propgandistët e Junanit të kishin një çikë më shumë durim për të bitisur leximin e Pausanisë, sigurisht se nuk do të ngjanin keqkuptime kaq të mëdha. Përderisa, në paragrafin e parë Pausania thotë për Pirron 'se nuk mbahet në mend që ndonjë grek përpara tij të ketë bërë luftë kundër romakëve' në disa fragmente tjera ai jep disa shpjegime që rrëzojnë përfundimisht pohimin e tij kur thotë se 'Pirroja ishte i parë që kaloi detin Jon nga Greqia'. Nëse, Pirro ishte i pari që e kaloi Detin Jon nga Greqia kjo nuk jep kurrfarë mbështetje për ta konsideruar atë Grek, sepse Detin Jon nga Greqia do të mund ta kalonte edhe një Ilir, Thrakas, Frigas, Skythas, etj, etj.

Nëse, propagandistët e Juananit vazhdojnë me këmbënguljet e tyre të zakonshme të 'helenictetit' të Pirros atëherë iu japim edhe një leksion tjetër nga Straboni:

At one time the Tarantini were exceedingly powerful, that is, when they enjoyed a democratic government; for they not only had acquired the largest fleet of all peoples in that part of the world but were wont to send forth an army of thirty thousand infantry, three thousand cavalry, and one thousand commanders of cavalry. Moreover, the Pythagorean philosophy was embraced by them, but especially by Archytas, who presided over the city for a considerable time. But later, because of their prosperity, luxury prevailed to such an extent that the public festivals celebrated among them every year were more in number than the days of the year; and in consequence of this they also were poorly governed. One evidence of their bad policies is the fact that they employed foreign generals[/color]; for they sent for Alexander the Molossian to lead them in their war against the Messapians and Leucanians, and, still before that, for Archidamus, the son of Agesilaüs, and, later on, for Cleonymus, and Agathocles, and then for Pyrrhus, at the time when they formed a league with him against the Romans.

Strabo, Geography 6,3,4

Ta bëjmë edhe këtu një çikë persiatje: nëse Pirroja paska qenë greku i parë që sulmoi romakët, atëherë përse Straboni e quan gabim të rëndë të politikës së Tarentit gradimin e të huajve në poste të larta administrative dhe ushtarake? Nëse Pirroja paska qenë grekë sikurse që kanë qenë banorët e kolonisë se Tarantit Strabo nuk do të thoshte fare se udhëheqja e ushtrisë tarentase u besohej të huajve.

[Zeus10]

(flm shume Albpelasgian per kete citim kaq te rendesishem)

Do ndaloj pak perseri tek citimi qe solli Albpelasgian per

Pausanias, Description of Greece 1.4.1

οἱ δὲ Γαλάται οὗτοι νέμονται τῆς Εὐρώπης τὰ ἔσχατα ἐπὶ θαλάσσῃ πολλῇ καὶ ἐς τὰ πέρατα οὐ πλωίμῳ, παρέχεται δὲ ἄμπωτιν καὶ ῥαχίαν καὶ θηρία οὐδὲν ἐοικότα τοῖς ἐν θαλάσσῃ τῇ λοιπῇ: καί σφισι διὰ τῆς χώρας ῥεῖ ποταμὸς Ἠριδανός, ἐφ' ᾧ τὰς θυγατέρας τὰς Ἡλίου ὀδύρεσθαι νομίζουσι τὸ περὶ τὸν Φαέθοντα τὸν ἀδελφὸν πάθος. ὀψὲ δέ ποτε αὐτοὺς καλεῖσθαι Γαλάτας ἐξενίκησεν: Κελτοὶ γὰρ κατά τε σφᾶς τὸ ἀρχαῖον καὶ παρὰ τοῖς ἄλλοις ὠνομάζοντο. συλλεγεῖσα δέ σφισι στρατιὰ τρέπεται τὴν ἐπὶ Ἰονίου, καὶ τό τε Ἰλλυριῶν ἔθνος καὶ πᾶν ὅσον ἄχρι Μακεδόνων ᾤκει καὶ Μακεδόνας αὐτοὺς ἀναστάτους ἐποίησε Θεσσαλίαν τε ἐπέδραμε. καὶ ὡς ἐγγὺς Θερμοπυλῶν ἐγίνοντο, ἐνταῦθα...

pjesa e nenvizuar perkthehet:
and turned towards the Ionian Sea, dispossessed the Illyrian people, all who dwelt as far as Macedonia

Pervec se eshte fakt i ditur i permendur dhe nga autoret e vjeter se qe nga deti Jon deri tek Maqedonet eshte Epiri, banoret e te cilit Pausani nuk nguron ti quaj te races Ilire.
Le ta shohim dhe grafikisht se cfare shtrihet qe nga Joni deri ne Maqedoni :



ose me qarte:

[ALBPelasgian]

Shkëlqyeshëm Zeus! Konkretizimi me hartë vetëm sa ia rrit vlerën shpjegimit të mësipërm.

[ALBPelasgian]

USE AND ABUSE OF ANCIENT ACCOUNTS BY YUNNANISTAN PROPAGANDA:
EXAMPLE NR. 3

'Thus the ambassador of Pyrrhus returned; and, when Pyrrhus asked him "what kind of a place he had found Rome to be," Cineas replied, that "he had seen a country of kings, for that all there were such, as Pyrrhus alone was thought to be in Epirus and the rest of Greece."

Eutropius, "Abridgment of Roman History" Book II

Epiri dhe pjesa tjetër e Greqisë! Ky është një tjetër pasus i shkëputur nga konteksti si gjithnjë nga Junanët, në mënyrë që të manipulojnë në përputhje me mëtimet e tyre për të greqizuar Epirin. Kjo nuk indikon asgjë se Epiri ka qenë pjesë e Greqisë, për shkak se gjeografë të tjerë të mirënjohur antik kanë lënë shënime të thukta në atë ku fillon Epiri, ku mbaron ai, dhe ku fillon Greqia. Po të bëjmë një përmbledhje të shkurtër të të gjitha shënimeve të lashta mbi Epirin do të vërejmë se ata e kanë ravijëzuar Epirin gjeografikisht të ndarë si prej Ilirisë ashtu edhe prej Greqisë. Mirëpo, përderisa 'ndarja' me Ilirinë përshkruhet vetëm si ndarje gjeografike, ajo me Greqinë quhet edhe ndarje gjeografike e edhe etnike. Le të përkujtojmë me këtë rast disa pasazhe domethënëse:

Ephorus says that, if one begins with the western parts, Acarnania is the beginning of Greece; for, he adds, Acarnania is the first to border on the tribes of the Epeirotes. But just as Ephorus, using the sea-coast as his measuring-line, begins with Acarnania (for he decides in favour of the sea as a kind of guide in his description of places...so it is proper that I too, following the natural character of the regions, should make the sea my counsellor.
~Strabo Geography Book VIII, Chapter 1, 3

[ALBPelasgian]

USE AND ABUSE OF ANCIENT ACCOUNTS BY YUNNANISTAN PROPAGANDA:
EXAMPLE NR. 4

I. But my own belief about it is this. If the Phoenicians did in fact carry away the sacred women and sell one in Libya and one in Hellas, then, in my opinion, the place where this woman was sold in what is now Hellas, but was formerly called Pelasgia, was Thesprotia; [2] and then, being a slave there, she established a shrine of Zeus under an oak that was growing there; for it was reasonable that, as she had been a handmaid of the temple of Zeus at Thebes , she would remember that temple in the land to which she had come. [3] After this, as soon as she understood the Greek language, she taught divination; and she said that her sister had been sold in Libya by the same Phoenicians who sold her

Herodotus 2.56

Rishtas, Junanët për të kënaqur guston e tyre bëjnë cungimin e shkrimeve të Herodotit duke i ikur poentës kryesore të Herodotit. Në këtë gjendje të cunguar siç është ky citat i Herodotit, për dikë që nuk e njeh historinë (zakonisht Junanët) u krijohet iluzioni i përzierjes dhe njejtësimit të termave: 'Grekë/Pellazg/Thesprot'. Që te dy këta terma e fundit (Pellazg dhe Thesprot) ishin thelbësisht të ndryshëm nga ai Grek e dëshmon vetë tradita e shkrimit antik.

Ja çfarë thotë Herodoti për Pellazgët:

57. What the language of the Pelasgi was I cannot say with any certainty. If, however, we may form a conjecture from the tongue spoken by the Pelasgi of the present day, - those, for instance, who live at Creston above the Tyrrhenians, who formerly dwelt in the district named Thessaliotis, and were neighbours of the people now called the Dorians, - or those again who founded Placia and Scylace upon the Hellespont, who had previously dwelt for some timewith the Athenians, - or those, in short, of any other of the cities which have dropped the name but are in fact Pelasgian; if, I say, we are to form a conjecture from any of these, we must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body; for it is a certain fact that the people of Creston speak a language unlike any of their neighbours, and the same is true of the Placianians, while the language spoken by these two people is the same; which shows that they both retain the idiom which they brought with them into the countries where they are now settled.

58. The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.

Herodotus on the Pelasgians and the Early Greeks

Herodoti bën një dallim të qartë midis termit 'Pellazg' (popullsia autoktone më e lashtë në Greqi) dhe termit 'Helen' të cilët u shkëputën nga trungu pellazg dhe duke u përzier me barbarë të tjerë (Herodoti s'bën fjalë se kush ishin këta) ndryshuan gjuhën aq sa Pellazgëve Herodoti i quan 'racë barbare' dmth jo greke. Ndërkaq, identifikimi i Epirotasve me Pellazgët është më se i rëndomtë:

And Thessaly is called "the Pelasgian Argos" (I mean that part of it which lies between the outlets of the Peneius River and Thermopylae as far as the mountainous country of Pindus), on account of the fact that the Pelasgi extended their rule over these regions. Further, the Dodonaean Zeus is by the poet himself named "Pelasgian": "O Lord Zeus, Dodonaean, Pelasgian." And many have called also the tribes of Epirus "Pelasgian," because in their opinion the Pelasgi extended their rule even as far as that.

Strabo 5.2.4

Edhe Thukididi vendosshmërisht i përjashton Epirotasit (fiset epirote) nga grekët duke i quajtur si 'barbarë':

καὶ αὐτῷ παρῆσαν Ἑλλήνων μὲν Ἀμπρακιῶται καὶ Λευκάδιοι καὶ Ἀνακτόριοι καὶ οὓς αὐτὸς ἔχων ἦλθε χίλιοι Πελοποννησίων, βάρβαροι δὲ Χάονες χίλιοι ἀβασίλευτοι, ὧν ἡγοῦντο ἐπετησίῳ προστατείᾳ ἐκ τοῦ ἀρχικοῦ γένους Φώτιος καὶ Νικάνωρ. ξυνεστρατεύοντο δὲ μετὰ Χαόνων καὶ Θεσπρωτοὶ ἀβασίλευτοι. [6] Μολοσσοὺς* δὲ ἦγε καὶ Ἀτιντᾶνας* Σαβύλινθος ἐπίτροπος ὢν Θάρυπος τοῦ βασιλέως ἔτι παιδὸς ὄντος, καὶ Παραυαίους Ὄροιδος βασιλεύων. Ὀρέσται δὲ χίλιοι, ὧν ἐβασίλευεν Ἀντίοχος+, μετὰ Παραυαίων ξυνεστρατεύοντο Ὀροίδῳ* Ἀντιόχου ἐπιτρέψαντος. [7] ἔπεμψε δὲ καὶ Περδίκκας κρύφα τῶν Ἀθηναίων χιλίους Μακεδόνων, οἳ ὕστερον ἦλθον.

The Hellenic troops with him consisted of the Ambraciots, Leucadians, and Anactorians, and the thousand Peloponnesians with whom he came; the barbarian of a thousand Chaonians, who, belonging to a nation that has no king, were led by Photius and Nicanor, the two members of the royal family to whom the chieftainship for that year had been confided. With the Chaonians came also some Thesprotians, like them without a king, [6] some Molossians and Atintanians led by Sabylinthus, the guardian of king Tharyps who was still a minor, and some Paravaeans, under their King Oroedus, accompanied by a thousand Orestians, subjects of King Antiochus and placed by him under the command of Oroedus. [7] There were also a thousand Macedonians sent by Perdiccas without the knowledge of the Athenians, but they arrived too late.

Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War 2.80.1

Straboni vetëm sa e përforcon pohimin e Tukididit kur thotë se:

These alone, then, of all the tribes that are marked off by the Ister and by the Illyrian and Thracian mountains, deserve to be mentioned, occupying as they do the whole of the Adriatic seaboard beginning at the recess, and also the seaboard that is called "the left parts of the Pontus," and extends from the Ister River as far as Byzantium. But there remain to be described the southerly parts of the aforesaid mountainous country and next thereafter the districts that are situated below them, among which are both Greece and the adjacent barbarian country as far as the mountains. Now Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians, if one reasons from the traditions themselves: Pelops brought over peoples from Phrygia to the Peloponnesus that received its name from him; and Danaüs from Egypt; whereas the Dryopes, the Caucones, the Pelasgi, the Leleges, and other such peoples, apportioned among themselves the parts that are inside the isthmus — and also the parts outside, for Attica was once held by the Thracians who came with Eumolpus, Daulis in Phocis by Tereus, Cadmeia by the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and Boeotia itself by the Aones and Temmices and Hyantes. According to Pindar, there was a time when the Boeotian tribe was called "Syes." Moreover, the barbarian origin of some is indicated by their names — Cecrops, Codrus, Aïclus, Cothus, Drymas, and Crinacus. And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians — Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the Thracians, and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei, the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes — Epeirotic tribes.
Strabo Geography Book VII, Chapter 7, 1

Edhe Skymni ( 445) Thesprotët dhe Kaonët i kategorizon qartësisht si Barbarë. Vetëm historianët e Junanit përpiqen që të bëjnë ndryshimin e kuptimësisë së termit 'barbar' duke pretenduar se ky term nënkuptonte 'grekë me shkallë të ultë të zhvillimit' ose që kishin ngecur prapa të tjerëve në qytetërim. Kjo në fakt është e pranueshme sepse siç e dëshmojnë një numër studiuesish modern:

"In Homer, there are no barbarians, but, then, there are no Greeks
either; subsequently, to affrim some to be Greeks went hand in hand with declaring the others to be barbarians. Without Greeks there can be no barbarians, and so, to that extent, Herodotus is not the 'inventor' of the barbarian"
~THE MIRROR OF HERODOTUS, By FRANçOIS HARTOG,1988, PAGE 323)

[Socio]

(flm shume Albpelasgian per kete citim kaq te rendesishem)

Do ndaloj pak perseri tek citimi qe solli Albpelasgian per

Pausanias, Description of Greece 1.4.1

οἱ δὲ Γαλάται οὗτοι νέμονται τῆς Εὐρώπης τὰ ἔσχατα ἐπὶ θαλάσσῃ πολλῇ καὶ ἐς τὰ πέρατα οὐ πλωίμῳ, παρέχεται δὲ ἄμπωτιν καὶ ῥαχίαν καὶ θηρία οὐδὲν ἐοικότα τοῖς ἐν θαλάσσῃ τῇ λοιπῇ: καί σφισι διὰ τῆς χώρας ῥεῖ ποταμὸς Ἠριδανός, ἐφ' ᾧ τὰς θυγατέρας τὰς Ἡλίου ὀδύρεσθαι νομίζουσι τὸ περὶ τὸν Φαέθοντα τὸν ἀδελφὸν πάθος. ὀψὲ δέ ποτε αὐτοὺς καλεῖσθαι Γαλάτας ἐξενίκησεν: Κελτοὶ γὰρ κατά τε σφᾶς τὸ ἀρχαῖον καὶ παρὰ τοῖς ἄλλοις ὠνομάζοντο. συλλεγεῖσα δέ σφισι στρατιὰ τρέπεται τὴν ἐπὶ Ἰονίου, καὶ τό τε Ἰλλυριῶν ἔθνος καὶ πᾶν ὅσον ἄχρι Μακεδόνων ᾤκει καὶ Μακεδόνας αὐτοὺς ἀναστάτους ἐποίησε Θεσσαλίαν τε ἐπέδραμε. καὶ ὡς ἐγγὺς Θερμοπυλῶν ἐγίνοντο, ἐνταῦθα...

pjesa e nenvizuar perkthehet:
and turned towards the Ionian Sea, dispossessed the Illyrian people, all who dwelt as far as Macedonia

Pervec se eshte fakt i ditur i permendur dhe nga autoret e vjeter se qe nga deti Jon deri tek Maqedonet eshte Epiri, banoret e te cilit Pausani nuk nguron ti quaj te races Ilire.
Le ta shohim dhe grafikisht se cfare shtrihet qe nga Joni deri ne Maqedoni :



ose me qarte:

Faleminderit, Zeus !

Une nuk dyshoj mbi shtrirjen e Ilireve prej Epirit deri ne Maqedoni,
megjithate kam rezerva ndaj citimit te Pausanias qe solli Alb ketu.
Mendoj se ky citim eshte interpretuar gabimisht.

Nese Keltet u hodhen drejt Detit Jon me anije, atehere une mund te jem gabim, dhe citimi eshte shume i rendesishem !
Por mendoj se sulmi i tyre ishte tokesor - ne c'rast ata sulmuan nga veriu dhe plackiten vendbanimet ilire (prej veriut deri) ne Maqedoni dhe pastaj i rane edhe Thesalise.


Sigurisht se pjesa e plote e tekstit do ta cartesonte menyren e sulmit Kelt ?

[ALBPelasgian]

Faleminderit, Zeus !

Une nuk dyshoj mbi shtrirjen e Ilireve prej Epirit deri ne Maqedoni,
megjithate kam rezerva ndaj citimit te Pausanias qe solli Alb ketu.
Mendoj se ky citim eshte interpretuar gabimisht.

Nese Keltet u hodhen drejt Detit Jon me anije, atehere une mund te jem gabim, dhe citimi eshte shume i rendesishem !
Por mendoj se sulmi i tyre ishte tokesor - ne c'rast ata sulmuan nga veriu dhe plackiten vendbanimet ilire (prej veriut deri) ne Maqedoni dhe pastaj i rane edhe Thesalise.


Sigurisht se pjesa e plote e tekstit do ta cartesonte menyren e sulmit Kelt ?

Socio, inkursionet e Galeve ne Ballkanin e vjeter, sidomos gjate shekullit III jane nje subjekt i jashtezakonshem per tu studiuar sepse nxjerrin ne pah shume nga organizimet dhe lidhjet qe ekzistonin ne mes te popujve te atehershem ballkanik (lexo:pellazgjik). Sulmi i Galeve ishte prej Veriut:

From their new bases in northern Illyria and Pannonia, the Gallic invasions climaxed in the early third century BCE, with the invasions of Macedonia, Thrace and Greece.

Per sa kohe qe gjalle Leka i Madh, keltet-galet nuk guxuan ti aviteshin trevave te Ilirse Jugore-Maqedonise dhe Epirit.

Whilst Alexander's ruled Macedonia, the Celts dared not to push south near Macedonia. Therefore, early Celtic expeditions were concentrated against Illyrian tribes

Me ka mbetur prore ne kujtes kur e kam lexuar Arthur Vajgallin (biograf anglez i Lekes se Madh) kur eshte takuar perhere te pare me perfaqesuesit e kelteve, gjate nenshtrimit te fiseve te pabindura thrakase. Thone se perfaqesuesit e kelteve ishin teper te gjate me trup karshi Maqedonaso-Ilireve (qe kishin nje trup mesatar). Mirepo, keltet-galet kerkuan nje beslidhje me Leken e Madh duke iu pergjigjur ne menyre enigmatike se 'na rafte qielli me krye nese te tradhtojme". Kjo pergjigje proverbiale eshte komentuar ndryshe-ndryshe nga historiane te ndryshem. Aleksander Stipceviq mendon:

In 335 BCE, the Celts sent representatives to pay homage to Alexander the Great, whilst Macedon was engaged in wars against the Thracian tribes on its northern border. Some historians suggests that this 'diplomatic' act was actually an evaluation of Macedonians military might, as the main objective for the Celts was the riches of Greece[5].

Pausania nder te tjerash shpjegon mesymjen e pergjithshme gale kunder Ilirise dhe Maqedonise:

Cerethrius was to lead against the Thracians and Triballians [2],
while Brennus [3] and Acichorius commanded the advance into Paeonia; Bolgius marched against the Macedonians and Illyrians and undertook a struggle with Ptolemy, who at that time was king of Macedonia. (This was the Ptolemy who treacherously murdered Seleucus son of Antiochus after taking refuge under his protection, and was called the 'Thunderbolt' for his utter daring.) Ptolemy himself died in the battle [4] and there was a sizable massacre of Macedonians, but even then the Celts did not have the confidence to advance against Greece; and so the second expedition returned home.

Pra, njeri nder komandantet kryesor gal i quajtur Bolgios mesyu kunder ilireve dhe maqedonasve bashke. Pra, nje komandant kishte marre persiper t'i nenshtronte hem iliret hem maqedonet. Per mendimin tim, kjo flet se maqedonasit dhe iliret kane pasur me shume sesa lidhje etnike.

Poashtu mendoj, se po te mos ekzistonte arroganca e nje adileshenti te prape maqedonas, aleanca iliro-maqedone do te qe ngadhnjeimtare.

Ptolemaeus alone, the king of Macedonia, heard of the approach of the Gauls without alarm, and, hurried on by the madness that distracted him for his unnatural crimes, went out to meet them with a few undisciplined troops, as if wars could be dispatched with as little difficulty as murders. 9 An embassy from the Dardanians, offering him twenty thousand armed men, for his assistance, he spurned, adding insulting language, and saying that "the Macedonians were in a sad condition if, after having subdued the whole east without assistance, they now required aid from the Dardanians to defend their country; 10 and that he had for soldiers the sons of those who had served under Alexander the Great, and had been victorious throughout the world." 11 This answer being repeated to the Dardanian prince, he observed that " the famous kingdom of Macedonia would soon fall a sacrifice to the rashness of a raw youth."

Justinus: Epitome of Pompeius Trogus' "Philippic histories" [24.4]

Kur rrenimi i dhembshem kishte pllakosur Ilirine dhe Maqedonine, nje i ri kryengrites Maqedonas me emrin Sosthenes, me nje kuturisje te vertete guximtare theu ushtrine e Bolgiusit dhe i zprapsi ata. Pstaj, galet e babezitur me ne fund iu drejtuan asaj qe e enderronin qyshkur: arin e tempullit te Delfit. Por, ajo cka eshte me e rendesishmja (kete e kam perfshir edhe ne nje studim timin i frymezuar nga A.Stipceviq per te shkruar rreth kesaj ceshtjeje), se koalicioni i pergjithshem 'grek' kunder galeve nuk perfshinte askund as Epirotet as Maqedonet. Kjo eshte e ngjashme me ate mesymjen e dikurshme perse kunder Greqise, ku ne mbrojtjen greke nuk figuronin askund Epirotet dhe Maqedonasit. Poshte po jap nje liste te pjesemarresve te qytet-shteteve greke qe morren pjese ne kete qendrese:

Here is the number of Greeks who appeared at Thermopylae [6] against the barbarous tribes of the Atlantic ocean.

* 10,000 men at arms and 500 cavalry from the Boeotians, under the captains of Boeotia: Cephisodotus, Thearidas, Diogenes, and Lysander;
* 500 horsemen from Phocis and infantry amounting to 3000, under Critobulus and Antiochus;
* 700 Locrians from the island of Atalante under Meidias, with no cavalry;
* 400 regimental soldiers from Megara,
* and an Aetolian contingent on the largest scale of any, with the number of cavalry unrecorded, 790 light infantry and more than 7000 regimental soldiers, under Polyarchus, Polyphron and Lacrates;
* the Athenian commander was Callippus (as I explained earlier) with a force of all the serviceable warships, 500 cavalry and a 1000 in the infantry, and her ancient prestige gave Athens pride of place.
* The kings [Antigonus Gonatas and Antiochus I Soter] sent mercenaries, 500 from Macedonia and as many again from Asia; Antigonus' officer was Aristodemus of Macedonia, and Antiochus' officer who also commanded the Asians and the Syrians from the Orontes was Telesarchus.

Sikur, Maqedonsit te ishin me te vertete 'greke' ose me te fuqishmit e grekeve, atehere ata do te merrnin flamurin e luftes greke kunder galeve e jo te dergonin sa per lare gojen nje force mercenare prej 500 vetash.

[alfeko sukaraku]

Zotrinj:

Junan-Jonian=Jonet.

Deti Jone eshte quajtur dikur deti qe sote quhet deti Egje,ndersa Jonia eshte quajtur i gjithe pellgu i Egjeut qe lidhe ishujt e greqis me brigjet e turqis

Ne radhe te pare ashtu si antikiteti edhe dijetaret e rinje te ditve tona ,e pranojne se Jonet jane rrace pellazge edhe nuk kane lidhje me greket.Gjuha Jone mbetet nje gjuhe e panjohur per gjuhen greke ,ndersa mbishkrimet e Presos edhe mbishkrimi i Limnos jane shkruajtur me alfabetin Jone,alfabet qe adoptoj me ane te ligjit Athine ..ne vitet 403/2 p e s..shi Suida tek fjala "saimin o damos".

Jonet jane Pellazget ,ndersa Junani-Joniani eshte nje ceshtje qe te pakten Zeusi munde ta kuptoj fare lehte se perse ju dha ky emer"grekeve"...ashtu si edhe emri "greket" qe perdoret nga Meyer edhe Camarda per Arvanitet

[Socio]

Faleminderit Alb !

Qellimi ishte vetem ta njohtoj Zeusin se gabim e ka kuptuar citimin e Pausanias !

[Zeus10]

Faleminderit Alb !

Qellimi ishte vetem ta njohtoj Zeusin se gabim e ka kuptuar citimin e Pausanias !

Mund te kesh te drejte per kete Socio, autoret e vjeter bejne diferencimin midis epirotve dhe Ilirve, por aq sa jane Tosket dhe Geget te ndryshem etnikisht, aq kane qene dhe Epirotet nga Iliret. Per me teper ne asnje rast te vetem ata nuk jane quajtur greke.
Kam nisur te shkruaj nje material tjeter ku mundohem te analizoj ne menyre te detajuar pse nuk duhet te ndjekim modelin grek ne trajtimin e ketij problemi.

[ALBPelasgian]

USE AND ABUSE OF ANCIENT ACCOUNTS BY YUNNANISTAN PROPAGANDA:
EXAMPLE NR. 5

28. CHAONES. And after Illyrians, Chaonians. And Chaonia has good harbours: and the Chaonians live in villages. And the coastal voyage of Chaonia is a half of a day.

29. KORKYRA. And by Chaonia is an island, Korkyra, and a Hellenic city in it, having three harbours by the city: of these the one is enclosed. And Korkyra belongs also to Thesprotia more than Chaonia. And I return again onto the mainland, whence I turned aside.

30. THESPROTIANS. And after Chaonia are the Thesprotian nation. And these too live in villages: and this territory also has good harbours. Here is a harbour, which has name Elaia. Into this the harbour the river Acheron emits: and there is lake Acherousia, out of which the Acheron fiver flows. And the coastal voyage of Thesprotias is a half of a day.

31. KASSOPIANS. And after Thesprotia is the nation Kassopia. And these too live in villages. And these live beside as far as into the Anaktoric gulf. And the coastal voyage of the Kassopians’ territory is a half of a day; and the Anaktoric gulf is a little less from its mouth as far as into the inner end, 120 stades. And the mouth has width 4 stades.

32. MOLOTTIA(MOLOSSIA). And after Kassopia are the Molottian nation. And these live in villages: and they come down only a little here to the sea, and largely into the interior. And the coastal voyage of Molottian territory is of 40 stades.

33. AMBRAKIA. And after Molottia, Ambrakia, a Hellenic city: and this is distant from sea 80 stades. And there is also upon the sea a fort and an enclosed harbour. From here Hellas begins to be continuous as far as Peneios river and Homolion, a city of Magnesian territory, which is beside the river. And the coastal voyage of Ambrakia is of 120 stades.

Nuk ka tekst me te keqinterpretuar prej 'juaneve' sesa pasazhi i mesiperm i gjeografit Skylaks. Edhe pse ky tekst permban te verteta qe rrezojne pergjithmone mitin e 'helenictetit' te Epirit, prapeseprape Junaeve nuk u pengon qe te vazhdojne marrezirat e tyre. Poenta e tyre e te cituarit te ketij paragrafi qendron ne gjoja 'ndarjen' qe iu beka Skylaksi kaoneve prej ilireve. Ky vecim i kaoneve (dhe pas tyre i thesporteve dhe moloseve) qenka per juanent nje 'fakt' i mjaftueshem se epirotet paskan ndryshuar ne teresi prej Ilireve. Mirepo, nje analizim sado i shkurter dhe logjik i ketij paragrafi eshte nje demantim i plote i propagandes se tyre. Ceshtja eshte se greket jo qe nuk dine te lexojne, por lexojne ashtu sic ua ka enda.

Ky paragraf i Sklyaksit eshte vazhdimesi e nje paragrafi tjeter ku flet per popujt ilirike dhe shtrirjen e tyre gjeografike. Ajo qe duhet nenvizuar menjehere ne kete rast, eshte se Skylaksi ben vecim gjeografik dhe jo etnik te epiroteve prej ilireve. Vecimi gjeografik nuk do te thote vecim etnik. Nese Skylaksi paska nenkuptuar nje Epir grek, atehere per c'arsyeje iu desh atij te shkoqiste ca qytete helene? Duke pershkruar ishullin e Kerkyres, ai thote se 'Kerkyra eshte qytet helen'. Edhe ne pasusin 33, Skylaksi thote se pas Molosise vjen Ambrakia, qyteti helen. Sipas, pershkrimit te detajuar te Skylaksit, c'prej Ambrakise e poshte nis Greqia kompakte, gje qe e perjashton Epirin dhe cfaredo heleniciteti te tij. Scylax notes that only beyond Ambracia, the Peneus and the town or mountain of Homotion in Magnesia, had the Greeks begun to inhabit the region in a compact manner. Edhe njehere ta perserisim: sikur Epiri te qe njemend helen, Skylaksi nuk do ta kishte nevojen qe te theksonte qytete helene. Mirepo, ai nje gje te tille e ben pikerisht pse Epiri ne pjesen derrmuese ishte 'barbar' dmth pellazgjiko-ilir dhe se brenda tij na ishin disa qytete-koloni helene sic ishte Ambrakia dhe Kerkyra. Te dhenat e Skylaksit vecse jane ri-perforcuar edhe nga pershkrimet e gjeografit tjeter Strabon perkitazi me ate qe eshte Epir dhe ate qe eshte Greqi:

"...After the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, then, come the following peoples of the Greeks: the Acarnanians, the Aetolians, and the Ozolian Locrians...
~Strabo Geography Book VIII, Chapter 1, 1

Ephorus says that, if one begins with the western parts, Acarnania is the beginning of Greece; for, he adds, Acarnania is the first to border on the tribes of the Epeirotes. But just as Ephorus, using the sea-coast as his measuring-line, begins with Acarnania (for he decides in favour of the sea as a kind of guide in his description of places...so it is proper that I too, following the natural character of the regions, should make the sea my counsellor.
~Strabo Geography Book VIII, Chapter 1, 3

Per me teper Straboni, vepra gjeografike e te cilit konsiderohet si nje nga me gjithperfshireset e gjithe antikitetit ne kapitujt rreth pershkrimit te Greqise, ne asnje vend nuk permend Epirin:

Chapter 1: Greece, generalities
Chapter 2: The Peloponnesus
Chapter 3: Elea
Chapter 4: Messenia
Chapter 5: Laconia
Chapter 6: Argolis
Chapter 7: Ionia
Chapter 8: Arcadia
9

Chapter 1: Attica
Chapter 2: Boeotia
Chapter 3: Phocis
Chapter 4: Locris
Chapter 5: Thessaly

Shpjegimi i paragrafit te apostrofuar te Skylaksit nuk perfundon me kaq, sepse ai permban edhe te tjera te verteta. Ne pasusin 26 ku ben fjale per fisin ilir te Taulanteve, Skylaks thote:

26. TAULANTIOI. And of the Taulantians is the Illyric nation, in which Epidamnos is, and a river flows beside the city which has the name Palamnos. And out of Epidamnos to Apollonia, a Hellenic city, is a road of two days. And Apollonia is distant from the sea 50 stades, and the river Aias flows beside the city. And from Apollonia into Amantia is 320 stades. And the Aias river from the Pindos Mountain flows beside Apollonia. [And] towards [Amantia] inland, somewhat into the Ionian gulf is Orikos. It comes down from Orikia to the sea 90 stades, and from Amantia 60 stades. Sharing a border with all these in the interior are Atintanes above Orikia and Karia* as far as Dodonia. And in the Kestris territory is said to be a pedion, name Erytheia. Here Geryones is said to come and pasture his oxen. By these places are the Keraunian mountains in Epeiros, and there is an island beside these places, a small one, which has the name Sason. From here to Orikos city is a coastal voyage of a day’s third part.

Vlen te theksohet se Atintanet qe banonin mbi Oriki dhe Karia gjer ne Dodone, ishin fis ilir, deri diku e pranuar edhe nga Nicholas G. Hammondi edhe pse ai pa kurrfare baze mundohet t'i dyzoje Atintantet ne ilire dhe greke (!!!). Prandaj, percapjet e junaneve per te shpikur nje dallim etnik midis ilireve dhe epiroteve jane te percaktuara te deshtojne sepse bien ndesh me traditen e autoreve antik te cilet asnjehere nuk e kane ndare Epirin nga Iliria, ne aspektin etnik. Per ta permbyllur kete po e rikujtojme edhe njehere, pershkrimin qe i ben Apiani shtrirjes se fiseve ilire, ku perfshin der te tjerash edhe kaonet dhe thesprotet:

APPIAN, The Foreign Wars ( The Illyrian Wars) Ill. 1.1

I.The Greeks call those people Illyrians who occupy the region beyond Macedonia and Thrace from Chaonia and Thesprotia to the river Ister (Danube). This is the length of the country. Its breadth is from Macedonia and the mountains of Thrace to Pannonia and the Adriatic and the foot-hills of the Alps. Its breadth is five days' journey and its length thirty -- so the Greek writers say. The Romans measured the country and found its length to be upward of 6000 stades and its width about 1200

Ἰλλυριοὺς Ἕλληνες ἡγοῦνται τοὺς ὑπέρ τε Μακεδονίαν καὶ Θρᾴκην ἀπὸ Χαόνων καὶ Θεσπρωτῶν ἐπὶ ποταμὸν Ἴστρον. καὶ τοῦτ' ἐστὶ τῆς χώρας τὸ μῆκος, εὖρος δ' ἐκ Μακεδόνων τε καὶ Θρᾳκῶν τῶν ὀρείων ἐπὶ Παιονας καὶ τὸν Ἰόνιον καὶ τὰ πρόποδα τῶν Ἄλπεων. καὶ ἔστι τὸ μὲν εὖρος ἡμερῶν πέντε, τὸ δὲ μῆκος τριάκοντα, καθὰ καὶ τοῖς Ἕλλησιν εἴρηται. Ῥωμαίων δὲ τὴν χώραν μετρησαμένων ἔστιν ὑπὲρ ἑξακισχιλίους σταδίους τὸ μῆκος, καὶ τὸ πλάτος ἀμφὶ τοὺς χιλίους καὶ διακοσίους.

[Zeus10]

Sharing a border with all these in the interior are Atintanes above Orikia and Karia* as far as Dodonia

Jo vetem kaq, por edhe rreth e rotull Dodones (dhe shume afer majes se malit Olymp)[Strabo libri 9) banon nje fis tjeter Ilir, Perrhaebi, duke e ndryshuar paraqitjen e Epirit ne shume Ilirike, dhe duke i dhene nje karrakter jo vetem jo-Grek kryeqendrave te Epirit dhe Thessalise por duke konfirmuar qe Epirotet dhe dega e tyre Thesalasit qe morren ne dorezim keto qendra adhurimi ne nje periudhe te mevonshme, ishin ne bashkejetese me keta fise Ilire gje qe mund te shpjegohet vetem me ngjashmerine etnike dhe kulturore te tyre. Por sic e kemi thene emri Epir eshte vetem nje trajtim gjeografik i atij territori, prej te cilit morren emrin dhe banoret brenda limiteve shume te percaktuar te tij, ndryshe nga rastet e tjera ku jane banoret dhe sundimtaret qe i japin emrin vendit.